Red Foot tortoise temperature control in winter

[crush's little helper]

Hello there

I am new to the tortoise owning world and have a baby red foot called crush. He turns 1 Soon Woo hoo !!

Right we have got a tortoise table which basically looks like a bookshelf ( minus the shelves) turned on its back. we have a solar-glo 125w bulb suspended via a "hangmans arm" setup and a mulch flooring with loads of sphagnum moss placed around.

We also have a small ceramic "no light" heater style bulb that emits heat for the night time.

We have given him two terracotta tubs as hides, they are placed on their sides so he can walk into an out of them easily. One in the cooler end and one in his hot end. They are usually stuffed with moss.

Thing is, we are a bit worried as to the following points and so many sets of conflicting information, we wondered if anyone can give us some assistance.

1 - when his moss is damp - to keep the humidity levels up, it turns cold ( even when sprayed with warm water), will this not make him cold when he burrows into it? If we put it under his sun lamp - it dries out quickly, which is the best, leave it wet and potentially cold, or under the lamp to keep warm. - I'm pretty sure i read to keep his moss wet, but it turns cold, even in his hide at the warm end and i'm concerned about him getting cold. Should i be worried or am i just thinking of it from a human point of view too much. I mean, I wouldn't sleep in cold and wet bed, but if it's tortoise heaven than I'm happy, just really concerned about him getting too cold at night. So wet or dry do you think?

2 - Tortoise table is open topped, and we need to keep the heat in especially in this cold weather. Should we be looking to "lid" the tort table with a plastic storage box top or some perspex resting over the most part of the top area or something like that?

3 - Generally we feed him, Kale, romaine lettuce, strawbs, apples, torto dry mix ( which he hates) and junior tort pellets ( again, he's not really a fan) plus a boiled egg every so often for protein, plus we have calcium dusting powder for occasional use What other readily available veg and fruit can we feed him?

4 - We feed him protein, calcium dusting powder and he has a full vitamin spectrum light, so....cat food or not? I haven't tried him on it yet, and have heard mixed reviews about doing this. When my parents had a tort when they were kids, none of these ideas were really about, and their tort did fine, but then again, it wasn't a redfoot.

5-He is not dehydrated at all, and his eyes and nose are clear. He has regular soaks and he loves them. However, i did read that a small plastic tub ( think catering margarine tub) placed upside down with a doorway cut into a side, filled with damp moss and a no light ceramic heater over the top will heat the box, cause the moss to create humidity, and the plastic will ensure its all kept inside so tort can enjoy and be healthy, wet and warm at night times ( or any other time he wishes to go in there) is this a good idea? Or will i inadvertently bake him?

Please don't get me wrong, we're not dim, its just he's only a baby and when you love something soooooooo much, you just wanna make sure you don't make any mistakes, and that you are doing the absolute best you can.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mike N Vix

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Mike: (does that mean "and Vix?")

Hi Mike and Vix: (???)

Welcome to the forum!!

May I ask where you are located?

You could try to cover part of the habitat. I just use aluminum foil and put it over the outside of the light fixtures. Doesn't look so hot, but does a good job.

When you are talking redfoots, you can toss the cool side/ warm side theory right out the window. Its perfectly ok to have an even temp all across the whole habitat. And if you cover one end including the light, it should help that moss in the hide to stay warm enough.

I won't try to answer the feeding questions, because I don't have redfoot tortoises.

 

[dmmj]

What type of protein do you feed? My RF gets earth worms, night crawlers, slugs (he loves them) and snails, I tend to avoid cat and dog food, just for personal reason nothing specific, a lot of people use cat food, go for lean as possible if you do. I did try cat food once or twice with mine but he was not a fan of it. He also loves mazuri which he gets once a week mixed with greens.

 

[LindaF]

Welcome to the wonderful world of red foots. I am constantly worried I am not doing the best or could do better for my little guy. I follow care sheets on turtletary.com and redfoots.com. I also have a tort table made from a bookcase. I'm working on covering part of it with plexiglas to see if that helps with humidity. (You can see my thread from earlier today. I was given a lot of good advice). Try adding some dandelion to his diet, but make sure it isn't treated with any pesticides or fertilizers etc. My guy HATES the pellets as well, but he does love Mazuri tortoise diet and that is my emergency food..

 

[Balboa]

Mark "Madkins007" has a great site full of helpful information, I suggest spending some time reading there.

http://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/home

I know what you mean about conflicting info, and you're right to worry about damp/cold substrates.

I keep my redfoots in a fully enclosed vivarium so I can control temperature and humidity. Without some kind of covering I've found it virtually impossible to maintain adequate warmth and humidity, and that is CRITICAL to redfoot health.

 

[Madkins007]

If I do this right, my replies will be in bold after each question...

Hello there

I am new to the tortoise owning world and have a baby red foot called crush. He turns 1 Soon Woo hoo !!

Congrats!

Right we have got a tortoise table which basically looks like a bookshelf ( minus the shelves) turned on its back. we have a solar-glo 125w bulb suspended via a "hangmans arm" setup and a mulch flooring with loads of sphagnum moss placed around.

We also have a small ceramic "no light" heater style bulb that emits heat for the night time.

We have given him two terracotta tubs as hides, they are placed on their sides so he can walk into an out of them easily. One in the cooler end and one in his hot end. They are usually stuffed with moss.

Thing is, we are a bit worried as to the following points and so many sets of conflicting information, we wondered if anyone can give us some assistance.

1 - when his moss is damp - to keep the humidity levels up, it turns cold ( even when sprayed with warm water), will this not make him cold when he burrows into it? If we put it under his sun lamp - it dries out quickly, which is the best, leave it wet and potentially cold, or under the lamp to keep warm. - I'm pretty sure i read to keep his moss wet, but it turns cold, even in his hide at the warm end and i'm concerned about him getting cold. Should i be worried or am i just thinking of it from a human point of view too much. I mean, I wouldn't sleep in cold and wet bed, but if it's tortoise heaven than I'm happy, just really concerned about him getting too cold at night. So wet or dry do you think?

This is a good observation and an important point, especially in a cooler home. The ideal would be warm and damp for heat and humidity. That takes sub-soil heating, like waterproof gardening cables. (I like these- http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Flexible-Heat-Ropes) If you cannot keep it warm, I'd go with dry in most of the habitat.

2 - Tortoise table is open topped, and we need to keep the heat in especially in this cold weather. Should we be looking to "lid" the tort table with a plastic storage box top or some perspex resting over the most part of the top area or something like that?

A lid, a box overhead, a tent- anything that helps trap heat and humidity safely in the habitat will help. The more insulated and air-tight it is the better overall, but you need plenty of fresh air to avoid problems. A quick and cheap method would be to use rigid foam boards (I like the pink stuff) to make most of a box- back, sides, and top- over the habitat. You can secure it with just plain duct tape to start. Hang a clear plastic curtain across the front.

3 - Generally we feed him, Kale, romaine lettuce, strawbs, apples, torto dry mix ( which he hates) and junior tort pellets ( again, he's not really a fan) plus a boiled egg every so often for protein, plus we have calcium dusting powder for occasional use What other readily available veg and fruit can we feed him?

Pretty much any greens you would eat are fine. You can often find bags of mixed greens and/or lettuces that work great. You can find more extensive lists in a lot of places. Here is one I wrote you might like- https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/red-foots/red-foot-diet.

4 - We feed him protein, calcium dusting powder and he has a full vitamin spectrum light, so....cat food or not? I haven't tried him on it yet, and have heard mixed reviews about doing this. When my parents had a tort when they were kids, none of these ideas were really about, and their tort did fine, but then again, it wasn't a redfoot.

Cat kibble is so-so. People with a lot of torts like it because it is cheap and stores well. If you only have a small group, you have a lot of other good options- worms, bugs other than mealworms, chicken or turkey, oily fish, organ meats, etc. They only need a little meat- about a meals-worth a month or so but more often is not a big deal. See the diet article above.

5-He is not dehydrated at all, and his eyes and nose are clear. He has regular soaks and he loves them. However, i did read that a small plastic tub ( think catering margarine tub) placed upside down with a doorway cut into a side, filled with damp moss and a no light ceramic heater over the top will heat the box, cause the moss to create humidity, and the plastic will ensure its all kept inside so tort can enjoy and be healthy, wet and warm at night times ( or any other time he wishes to go in there) is this a good idea? Or will i inadvertently bake him?

That is a basic humid hide and is a good idea, especially of you cannot offer warm/damp substrate, etc. There are several ways to make a good humid hide, but keeping it warm is important.

Please don't get me wrong, we're not dim, its just he's only a baby and when you love something soooooooo much, you just wanna make sure you don't make any mistakes, and that you are doing the absolute best you can.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mike N Vix

Depending on where you are, you may find that you need a more aggressive heating system- bigger or more ceramic heaters (we call them Ceramic Heat Emitters, CHE's) or something. In my 48"x20" in Omaha, I need undersoil cables (the longest Big Apple offers), a medium size CHE, AND a 100w mercury vapor bulb (MVB) to get the range I want.

I firmly believe, based on experience and research, that Red-foots, like most other tortoises, benefit from a heat gradient- mine seem to seek out warmer or cooler areas for different purposes and visibly bask at times under the MVB. Depending on the habitat size, I would aim for a range of 80 to 90F. Besides, trying to make a even temp over a large space is tough.

The Tortoise Library in my signature below, has a lot of articles, etc. that you might enjoy.

 

[crush's little helper]

Thank you so much for the advice will defo come in handy, we are looking inti
Perspex as we do like to watch our little fella run round and bask lol.
Also would anyone know roughly the average weight gain is for an infent? He's putting on about 4-6g aweek I do have a list but not with me right now

Many thanks again