Radiated in Madagascar

[Yellow Turtle]

In a captive setting maturity can be reached by 5 years ( If not earlier ), with 3-5 clutches a year....

Tell me that isn't quickly....No different than a Redfoot...

this is the very first time I read something like this..
It would be a pleasure to read something written by someone who can do this..

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Generation time is considered as 42 years; the assessment is carried out by considering documented impacts over a period encompassing less than two past generations (67 years) and anticipated impacts on the next generation (next 33 years) for a maximum assessment period of 100 years. Available information indicates that the species has disappeared entirely from about 40% of its past range through a combination of habitat loss and exploitation, and that remaining populations have been severely depleted by recent and ongoing exploitation predominantly for domestic consumption; an overall population reduction of 80% over two past and one future generation is a conservative estimate, thus qualifying as Critically Endangered under criterion A4d. Population modelling indicates collapse and extinction in a period of on average 45 years into the future, thus meeting Critically Endangered under criterion E. Habitat loss rates approach or exceed 80% over the three generation period, thus A4c may also be met.

if you want to read something more http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/9014/0

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This is actually similar to what one of the members who has successfully bred ploughshare shares. F2 reached maturity so fast that is almost ready to breed now, if I remember correctly. Those 20 years of maturity is certainly not needed in captivity.

Unfortunately I don't trust all those IUCN created articles nor any other articles created by those chelonian centers regarding how rare those tortoises in the world now. Fact of all those hatchlings and juveniles imported to my country is the reason I don't trust any of those articles anymore.

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I was talking about radiated tortoises in the wild, however I know for sure that a radiata female need to reach more than 31 cm both in captivity and in the wild to breed successfully (may be can appen that a female breed smaller but the averages doesn't work this way), and this is not possible in 5 years or less as someone wrote here.
unfortunately I found IUCN articles very close to reality, those species are endangered beacuse of the poachers who steal the hatchlings from the center, and unfortunately this is a truth about plougshares (I know personally people who worked in the Ampijoroa center).
For the radiated it is true that babies hatch on the floor, and beacuse of the major number of adult specimens who can breed successfully it is quietly easier to get big numbers of hatchlings.

however this is not what the topic was created for, I don't want to discuss about the status of a tortoise endangerment, I am not the authority who protect those animals, my only duty is to buy regular animals, not smuggled inside luggage or something else.

I will post some other pics soon about this amazing animals taken in the red ground.

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Oh yes my apology, lets get back to the picture topic unless we are turning this in debate section.

I'd love to see more pictures of wild radiata and wonder if there is any big adult radiata with full yellow stripes from your pictures.

 

[Tom]

I have seen demonstrations of how past radiata population figures were over exaggerated due to faulty counting techniques. Those figures are now being used to compare to the current more correctly assessed figures. Some speculate that this is why we see a decline in the numbers since the 70's.

The bottom line is that the low estimates for wild radiata populations are around 6.5 million. This is not counting all the captive breeding going on in other parts of the world. For example, Ed posted some pics of an Island in the Seychelles, I if I recall, where there are literally thousands and thousands of breeding adults and who knows how many tens of thousands of their offspring of all ages. I don't know what the numbers are here in the states, but there are A LOT of people who breed them, and even more that have the offspring from these breeders. From where I am sitting they don't seem endangered at all. Like ravens and coyotes, at least some of the human encroachment on their wild territories seems to be benefitting this species. I'm just saying the state of their "endangerment" seems pretty exaggerated in this case. Compare this to other species who have wild populations estimated in the hundreds or less. G. platynota for example. Or many of the Asian turtle species.

 

[fbolzicco]

I have seen demonstrations of how past radiata population figures were over exaggerated due to faulty counting techniques. Those figures are now being used to compare to the current more correctly assessed figures. Some speculate that this is why we see a decline in the numbers since the 70's.

The bottom line is that the low estimates for wild radiata populations are around 6.5 million. This is not counting all the captive breeding going on in other parts of the world. For example, Ed posted some pics of an Island in the Seychelles, I if I recall, where there are literally thousands and thousands of breeding adults and who knows how many tens of thousands of their offspring of all ages. I don't know what the numbers are here in the states, but there are A LOT of people who breed them, and even more that have the offspring from these breeders. From where I am sitting they don't seem endangered at all. Like ravens and coyotes, at least some of the human encroachment on their wild territories seems to be benefitting this species. I'm just saying the state of their "endangerment" seems pretty exaggerated in this case. Compare this to other species who have wild populations estimated in the hundreds or less. G. platynota for example. Or many of the Asian turtle species.

Tom, maybe you are right, and I hope so, you are for sure right about the other species you mentioned (perhaps G. platynota status is gonna be to upgraded, I read something like this last year), I am the first who said that A. radiata can breed faster than other species starting with full adult animals, but the destruction of about the 80% of its area is an estabilished fact, I saw with my eyes hundreds miles of A. radiata habitats burning before the rain season.
Indeed we should read the endangered status, in my opinion, only counting the wild animals, as we actually do in Italy for example for testudo hermanni where we know for sure that our CB animals can't be reintroduced in the wild for many reasons.

 

[KenS]

In a captive setting maturity can be reached by 5 years ( If not earlier ), with 3-5 clutches a year....

Tell me that isn't quickly....No different than a Redfoot...

I have to say,
I have NEVER heard of any CBB radiated produce babies before they were 9-10 years old. I would love to talk to the person in the US who has produced babies from a 5-6 year old radiated. Just not a realistic time frame.

Ken S

 

[fbolzicco]

In a captive setting maturity can be reached by 5 years ( If not earlier ), with 3-5 clutches a year....

Tell me that isn't quickly....No different than a Redfoot...

I have to say,
I have NEVER heard of any CBB radiated produce babies before they were 9-10 years old. I would love to talk to the person in the US who has produced babies from a 5-6 year old radiated. Just not a realistic time frame.

Ken S

actually I think that even 9-10 years are enough to grown hatchling to full adult, but with luck and your good climate here in the south of US it should be.

ok, let's go on with other pics

this pics were taken in Taná, as they call Antananarivo, the capital city of Madagascar.
This family run a semi-prescious stones business, and the mn who hold this big WC female told us that they all are used to keep those animals behind the bed during the night, due to a folk custom to keep away evil spirits.

look at this male (not me, the turtle ), I think that it was awesome

another male

and this specimen brings with huim the marks of old wounds, I think due to a fire

 

[tunafish89]

I am so jealous right now, wc adult female in backyard to keep away the evil spirit, damn, that would be real nice if wild radiateds are around my country...
Do you have any pictures showing distinctive difference between adult male and female radiated?

 

[fbolzicco]

Do you have any pictures showing distinctive difference between adult male and female radiated?

of course I do
this is a male, you can see a male, concave plastron to make easier mount the female, big tail, and golar scutes to fight with other males.

this is a female, as you can see the plastron is plain, the tail is small and the gular scutes are not so pronounced

you can also look on this care sheet on pics 5/6/7/8 these differences

http://www.tartarugando.it/content/216-scheda-allevamento-astrochelys-radiata.html

 

[tunafish89]

Do you have any pictures showing distinctive difference between adult male and female radiated?

of course I do
this is a male, you can see a male, concave plastron to make easier mount the female, big tail, and golar scutes to fight with other males.

this is a female, as you can see the plastron is plain, the tail is small and the gular scutes are not so pronounced

you can also look on this care sheet on pics 5/6/7/8 these differences

http://www.tartarugando.it/content/216-scheda-allevamento-astrochelys-radiata.html

Wow, thanks for the clear pictures, the differences are really obvious in your pictures, all those pictures make me wish that I could travel to Madagascar someday.

 

[Tom]

fbolzicco, I just want to say thanks for sharing your fantastic pictures with us. Most of us will never make it to Madagascar, so we are very lucky to see your pics. I'd love to see more if you are willing to share.

 

[fbolzicco]

It's my pleasure Tom, I love to talk about these animals.
I have many other pics to post, and not only about radiata..I only need to get my pc.
Stay tuned!!

 

[coastal]

There are special circumstances in the US unlike any other country and that is ESA which prevents most from importing/exporting to and from the US with legal CB animals. Only under special circumstances is this trade allowed in the US. Other countries trade in CB radiated tortoise is done only under CITIES and can be achieved. So trade in actual CB animals of this species is not out of the question. The actual source is a whole other factor, but legal trade or not in less regulated counties they will be sold so long as money is to be made. Currently US residents must meet ESA laws after meeting CITIES regulations which most private breeders/collectors won't qualify.

In terms of breeding while I know of some 10" females laying good eggs and producing offspring this is not typical. I feed my rads very well and they grow fast but even so the 5 year time frame is not something I see possible. Perhaps 7 years at the soonest but not typical even in south Florida. While eggs are produced actual hatchling numbers to eggs laid can have high swings. All in all this is a very tough species that once populated like some of the more common species will be cape able of out numbering wild populations in captivity. The trend being these will be the new sulcata in terms of how common they are in the pet trade and ease of care to adapt and thrive under captive conditions.

 

[fbolzicco]

here are some other pics about radiated I met during the journey
these are all CB juvenile animals as you can see

 

[deadheadvet]

The pluses and minuses to John's analogy to the new "Sulcata" are
Radiateds will not get as big which is the good news, the bad news is the difficulty in getting successful reproduction as compared to Sulcatas which will turn out offspring like rabbits once mature. The other issue is USFWS paperwork that goes along w/ radiateds and not everyone wants to do it. I guess we'll see what the future holds. At least they won't be going extinct.