question about pyramiding

[dewbert]

Hi folks--
Still learning about George and Lucille, here...

A friend of mine recently asked if Lucille had experienced pyramiding. I'm thinking that she has, but someone else said "all adult redfoot tortoises look like that".

So, here are my questions:

1. In this photo of Lucille, are we seeing pyramiding? http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0VrWjhzIVwvn8T4iTxarRQ?feat=directlink

2. Am I right in assuming that pyramiding is not natural (or good) and that the person who said all adults are like that is just used to seeing adults that have been under poor care?

3. Am I also right in assuming that if I follow the RedFoots.com feeding schedule for adults, keep her at appropriate temps (85F hot side -- 70F cool) side and keep her enclosure's humidity above 70%, the likelihood of continued pyramiding will be reduced?

Lastly, thanks for everyone on the forum for all the great advice. I've been poring over the site, trying to learn as much as possible from previous posts and have also had many of my questions directly answered. You guys are a tremendous resource for us newbies!!!

 

[tortoisenerd]

1. I think I see some. I've definitely seen worse cases though. For the case of "all Redfoots look like that"...it's probably that all the Redfoots that person saw looked like that (ie. most of the ones in captivity not being kept by an experienced owner).
2. There are a couple tort species who naturally pyramid, even in the wild (I'm sure someone else will remember which). Other than that, pyramiding is mostly seen in captivity. Theories include humidity, temperature, diet, exercise. I personally believe more research point to humidity, but the others may still be factors.
3. With the proper care as you describe, most people have been able to get even new shell growth. Terry and many others have had huge success with the plan.

 

[Laura]

she does have it, and you are right. most people are used to seeing them that way. I know sulcatas at zoos or other large torts were always spiked looking. thought that was normal. we know better now!! AND know how to pretty much prevent it. Wth proper care and diet she should grow out more normal and smooth a bit.

 

[carrilac]

I have 2 juveniles with pyramiding. Since they are still growing (both are under 6 inches) I am hoping to help correct the problem. Does anyone on this forum have any examples of pyramiding that has mellowed out over time with proper care? Maybe this is something I should ask in the general discussion section?

 

[tortoisenerd]

The photos where you see the top scutes pyramided, but the ones on the sides as smoother growth show how it can get better over time. I know that kyryah has two female sulcata juveniles that have experienced this, among some of the other posters here.

 

[carrilac]

Thanks- very intresting. What about the scrute at the very back of the shell (by the tail)? It seems like that one is the most lifted on both my torts?

 

[tortoisenerd]

Not sure about that in particular. Hopefully Danny will come along....

 

[drgpenardo]

I bought a yellow foot and a red foot at the pet store that both had pyramiding. I've stuck with the redfoots.com advice and the rf Gracie's have become less noticable since she's grown. I worry about Rex though (the yf) Her's have actually gotten worse and she's grown a lot faster than Gracie. Her shell is still hard and the vet says she's healthy as a horse so I try not to worry too much. But she eats and eats and eats. If I pull the food, she paces and gets moody. But Gracie's did get better as her shell grew.

 

[egyptiandan]

It's usually the vertebral scutes (the ones running down the back) that are the first to pyramid. The coastal scutes (the ones running down the sides) don't pyramid as often, only in very bad cases. The marginal scutes (the ones running around the edge) almost never.
Most pyramiding will respond to a good diet and become less noticeable with growth. This only works when a tortoise is fairly young and has a bit of growing left to do.
Most shell deformities, this can happen with pyramiding, like being flat or misshappen usually can't be fixed with a good diet. A good diet will make them healthier, but usually won't make the tortoise grow any better.

Danny

 

[cdmay]

I have 2 juveniles with pyramiding. Since they are still growing (both are under 6 inches) I am hoping to help correct the problem. Does anyone on this forum have any examples of pyramiding that has mellowed out over time with proper care? Maybe this is something I should ask in the general discussion section?

Carrilac....the answer to your question about pyramiding 'mellowing out' is yes--to a certain degree. If the animals are still rather small, as your are, and the pyramiding is not too severe, then in time it does smooth out as they grow.
Also, the first and last vertebrals normally protrude slightly in normally grown redfoots. So when there is pyramiding these appear to be the most affected. But again, by the time your tortoises are fully grown they will probably look much better than you think.

 

[Madkins007]

I bought a yellow foot and a red foot at the pet store that both had pyramiding. I've stuck with the redfoots.com advice and the rf Gracie's have become less noticable since she's grown. I worry about Rex though (the yf) Her's have actually gotten worse and she's grown a lot faster than Gracie. Her shell is still hard and the vet says she's healthy as a horse so I try not to worry too much. But she eats and eats and eats. If I pull the food, she paces and gets moody. But Gracie's did get better as her shell grew.

YF's are more susceptible to dehydration and humidity-related issues than the more tolerant RF is.

The more I see and read about pyramiding, the more I think that mild 'bumping' is not a big deal as long as the underlying shell is strong and properly shaped. It shows that something should be corrected, but it does not seem to affect other systems or the tort's overall health.