Protein

[grettas mom]

I have discovered that my picky little redfoot loves her protein!! I have never seen Gretta eat her food as well as she ate her salad today when I put tuna on the top. Now of course, I am wondering how much protein she can have and what kind is ok...? I do not want to get her sick now that she has finally started to eat... Look forward to everyone's suggestions...

 

[egyptiandan]

Once a week for protein is what I do for my Redfoots.

Danny

 

[Chewbecca]

Once a week for protein is what I do for my Redfoots.

Danny

x2.

I may give Stagger a worm or roach here and there on off nights, but usually no more than 1-2 times a week does he get ANY non-plant protein.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Tuna! I didn't know Redfoots would eat tuna! Is it really okay for them to eat with all the mercury and all?

 

[Madkins007]

I doubt that the small amount of mercury would be a big deal, but you can also use salmon, mackerel, etc. I don't do a lot of oily fish- it tends to stink up the tank and the droppings smell funky as well- but it is a nice change of pace from other proteins.

Frequency: There is not a set amount of meat a Red-foot or other forest species needs- some keepers/authors recommend a small weekly meal, others do it monthly or quarterly, and a few offer a little bit almost daily. In the wild, most of the protein seems to come from butterflies, termites, and other small bugs so it seems they would usually only get a little and a little there.

Note: There seems to be more of a risk in feeding too much protein than in feeding too little. Don't forget, they get at least some protein from the plants as well. If in doubt, reduce the serving size or frequency.

Other options: Different keepers/authors have different preferences and different realities. Some things some of my favorite keepers recommend include soaked low-fat cat kibble, canned feline diet (not the same thing as cat food), baby mice or rats (usually called pinkies, furries, or hoppers depending on age- hoppers have the best calciumhosphorous ratio), worms and other bugs, cooked chicken or turkey, organ meats, cooked eggs (with or without shells), canned grasshoppers and other insects (yes, there really is such a thing, but use the pet food versions, not the grocery store versions).

I prefer to feed mine worms, frozen/thawed fuzzies, the occasional Superworm or caterpillar, or bits of whatever I am having- some cooked eggs, a little cooked chicken, etc. I have some low-fat cat kibble and a small can of fish around for any time I want to mix things up or don't have anything else. I tend to feed protein more often in the summer when they are out in the big pen than I do when they are indoors, but that is just my preference.

 

[grettas mom]

Wow! Thanks for all the ideas everyone!!!

 

[Candy]

I doubt that the small amount of mercury would be a big deal, but you can also use salmon, mackerel, etc. I don't do a lot of oily fish- it tends to stink up the tank and the droppings smell funky as well- but it is a nice change of pace from other proteins.

Frequency: There is not a set amount of meat a Red-foot or other forest species needs- some keepers/authors recommend a small weekly meal, others do it monthly or quarterly, and a few offer a little bit almost daily. In the wild, most of the protein seems to come from butterflies, termites, and other small bugs so it seems they would usually only get a little and a little there.

Note: There seems to be more of a risk in feeding too much protein than in feeding too little. Don't forget, they get at least some protein from the plants as well. If in doubt, reduce the serving size or frequency.

Other options: Different keepers/authors have different preferences and different realities. Some things some of my favorite keepers recommend include soaked low-fat cat kibble, canned feline diet (not the same thing as cat food), baby mice or rats (usually called pinkies, furries, or hoppers depending on age- hoppers have the best calciumhosphorous ratio), worms and other bugs, cooked chicken or turkey, organ meats, cooked eggs (with or without shells), canned grasshoppers and other insects (yes, there really is such a thing, but use the pet food versions, not the grocery store versions).

I prefer to feed mine worms, frozen/thawed fuzzies, the occasional Superworm or caterpillar, or bits of whatever I am having- some cooked eggs, a little cooked chicken, etc. I have some low-fat cat kibble and a small can of fish around for any time I want to mix things up or don't have anything else. I tend to feed protein more often in the summer when they are out in the big pen than I do when they are indoors, but that is just my preference.

Now Madkins, I have to get you on something you posted a few threads back about whether or not they had a maid (of something like that cutting up there fruit for them in the wild) do you remember that? Now I have to ask you do they have a cook out there in the wild that cooks their chicken for them? Why don't you feed it raw like they would get in the wild. I hope you know that I have a smile on my face as I'm writing this to you.

 

[Chewbecca]

I STILL say that a 2 1/2" tortoise isn't going to chew his way through a cantaloupe rind.

Do you honestly think one would???

Yes, I cut up my tortoise's food for him, and I will continue to do so until he gets bigger.
There are some things I do not cut up, but I usually cut up his fruit and I smash his cat food.
AND, guess what???
I hold any roaches or worms with food grippers for him while he eats them.
If I don't, he has not a chance in h*ll of grabbing them on his own as roaches are way too fast for him.

Wish the waiter-in-the-wild joke would come to an end, as I know the joke was made at my expense, and I think it's mean.

Now Madkins, I have to get you on something you posted a few threads back about whether or not they had a maid (of something like that cutting up there fruit for them in the wild) do you remember that? Now I have to ask you do they have a cook out there in the wild that cooks their chicken for them? Why don't you feed it raw like they would get in the wild. I hope you know that I have a smile on my face as I'm writing this to you.

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't think they are being mean on purpose. Maybe they just have bigger tortoises than yours. I have three young Yellowfoot tortoises that I raised from the egg stage, and I will remove the cantaloupe seeds from their cantaloupe, however I do leave on the rind. I cut it in quarters, then I cut the quarters in half and place it in the habitat with the rind side down. They eat all the flesh off the rind and what's left is only rind. I think this gives them lots of beak exercise and helps keep it in shape. Makes them work a little bit for their dinner.

I've noticed that a favorite thing to say when talking about canned food or cooked food or "trimmed" food is something to the effect, "..no one opens that can for them in the wild..." I've done it myself in the past. So please don't take it personally. If you want to cut up your tortoise's food that's your business, and you are perfectly fine and alright in doing so!!

Yvonne

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Being omnivors.. redfoot's eat virtually anything they can catch/find. And since 'most' plant matter [ those things that grow out of the ground ] is low in protein [ compared to red-blooded animal ] they seek-out food that provides them with that D3 [ I call it catalyst.. for the lack of better terms ] that makes the calcium they eat 'do it's thing'.

Now here's the rub --- I'm of the opinion ( here's my reference.. which has not been mentioned anywhere in this thread by anyone ) that not only common sense tells us.. but a friend's fiance from Venezuela has observed them eating all types of fungi ( mushrooms.. quite high in D vitamin I understand ).. which grow out of the ground where they live. PLUS all types of animal feces.. ever seen your redfoot eating it's own or cage-mates' 'poop'? OF COURSE! [ don't remove it BTW.. let them eat it.. it does not hurt them in any way ]. This reference is based on over 10 years of keeping redfoots personally.

And I'm sure they do stumble upon carrion [ what's left of it ] from time to time also.

So with that said.. I personally have never offered mine any type of fish.

That leaves us with choices that they wouldn't otherwise get in the wild.. I agree and understand. My choice.. because of the numbers and sizes of redfoots' that I keep.. I use a high-protein ( chicken - 1st ingredient ) DRY cat-food which has a small amount of D3 added also. [ find on the caresheet in the links below ]. You be the judge on what you prefer!

As far as "eating-thru-the-rind" of cantaloupe, etc. Common sense only tells us that they only eat what they can get to. And 'most' of that is very ripe because it has fallen off of the tree ( ripe ) and will bruise/burst when it hits the ground.. or it has been on the vine until "ripe-enough" to eat.

SO.. and I understand my situation is most likely different in that I take their fruit out of the "redfoot-refrigerator" and allow it to get really-ripe! Even still I slice it up and throw it out randomly.. and it often "splatters" when it hits the ground.

Virtually all of anything I say is based on "long-term" breeder friends and keepers.. and/or personally. And none have fed there redfoots fish.

Terry K

 

[Crazy1]

Rebecca, I am sorry you think the banter is at your expense and I agree with Yvonne I don't think anyone is being mean on purpose. In the wild Torts do not have maids or cooks or can openers or limos or vets. And we all know that setting them up as if they are in their wild habitat is a good thing. But Personally mine do have a maid, cook, can opener and limo let alone vets and yes even baby sitters. And Here at my house they have a MOM. So that being said. I chop my hatchlings food (heck I even took the tuff skin off that old bell pepper and chopped it really fine for even my juveniles) until I feel they can eat larger pieces and I feel anyone who does, is just fine. It is what you feel it the best care for your tort, and I doubt anyone would disagree with that. Again please don't take offence. I am sure this comment was done with only humor in its intent.

 

[grettas mom]

I have no problems with offering her holistics type high quality cat food. However, should I moisten it first? I guess I would be afraid of her not being able to chew the hard pieces of cat food...I do think I will still offer her "real protein" once in a while too since she seems to love it so much

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

I always moisten cat food. Its awful dry and hard on their throats if ya don't. Plus protein in the wild, like bugs or proteinish poop, are moist and soft. They don't have teeth to grind down large or hard objects like we do.

 

[Jacqui]

Virtually all of anything I say is based on "long-term" breeder friends and keepers.. and/or personally. And none have fed there redfoots fish.

Terry K

"We (Vinke & Vinke) observed our red-footed tortoises eating fish that jumped out of a water reservoir set up out of the tortoises' reach for increasing humidity."

"Captive red-footed tortoises in Columbia ate meat and fresh or rotting fish, as well as table scraps and feces (of other animals and their own). (Castano Mora & Lugo Rugeles 1981)."

"Dennert (2001) recommends using whole vertebrates because they provide more complete nutrition. This is rather common now, with prekilled mice, day old chicks, and fish being offered to tortoises, (Fritz 2001, Govers 2002b, Hummel & Felsner 2003, Wolff 2003a,b, Kundert 2004b, May 2004)."

Just a few quotes about feeding fish from the book, "South American Tortoises...Chelonoidis carbonaria, C. denticulata and C. chilensis by Vinke, Vetter, Vinke, and Vetter 2008

Note any misspells or typos are just my poor copy/typing skills.

I will only very rarely try feeding the catfood and my redfoots really don't seem to like it that well. Myself I don't like the other added ingredients in catfoods. Like with everything, I do try to give as wide of a variety as I can. I try once a week to give an earthworm or buggy type item to each redfoot. About once a month it's something more like a dead mouse, piece of boiled chicken, ect.., If I miss a week or two, it's no major deal. Nor is it a big deal if they maybe get two servings in one week's time. This isn't an exact science and in nature amounts and frequency changes, why should captive diets be different? I cook the chicken, just because I worry about the added risk of raw meats.

P.S. I myself had not yet tried my redfoots on fish, but I do my hingebacks. After reading this book, I do plan to start trying some fish on them. When reading the book, I had a duh moment and couldn't believe I had failed to try any yet.

...now if I could just find some figs...

---

I chop my hatchlings food (heck I even took the tuff skin off that old bell pepper and chopped it really fine for even my juveniles) until I feel they can eat larger pieces and I feel anyone who does, is just fine. It is what you feel it the best care for your tort, and I doubt anyone would disagree with that. Again please don't take offence. I am sure this comment was done with only humor in its intent.

Hey, I bought a blender to cut my hatchling food up small. Otherwise, they kept getting a little extra finger sliced up in it too.

Somedays they get well sliced and diced and then other days, I leave it longer or in whole slices so they have to work a bit at it doing their own ripping, gnawing, mashing, shredding.

 

[Madkins007]

Now Madkins, I have to get you on something you posted a few threads back about whether or not they had a maid (of something like that cutting up there fruit for them in the wild) do you remember that? Now I have to ask you do they have a cook out there in the wild that cooks their chicken for them? Why don't you feed it raw like they would get in the wild. I hope you know that I have a smile on my face as I'm writing this to you.

I understand that this is posted in good humor, and I know you understand that the cooking is more for food safety than for flavor. Although, now I have an image in my mind of the earlier waiter bringing our wild tortoises a nice serving of pheasant under glass with candles, etc. Dang it!



Another comment in defense of fish- I forget the species, but at least one species of Hinge-back is actually known to go fishing. Fish offer a lot of useful nutrients- but as I mentioned, are not something I would offer our Red-foots very often.

 

[Jacqui]

Another comment in defense of fish- I forget the species, but at least one species of Hinge-back is actually known to go fishing. Fish offer a lot of useful nutrients- but as I mentioned, are not something I would offer our Red-foots very often.

About a month ago, I tried fish on my Hingeback groups with mixed results. The Homes and Erosas were the most eager to eat them, but even the Bells and Speki ate them. Not sure if the Homes caught any of their's while they were alive and swimming, but at least one Erosa did go after them in the water. Just wished at the time, I would have thought to try some of the fish on the redfoots.

 

[Madkins007]

Wish the waiter-in-the-wild joke would come to an end, as I know the joke was made at my expense, and I think it's mean.

Rebecca, please believe me when I apologize for that comment. I was just giving voice to a humorous image in my mind and had no ill intent towards you or anyone else.

I really want to use the Han Solo line "Its not smart to upset a Wookie", but don't want to add more fuel to issue. Please accept my apologies... even though I cannot promise I won't do it again, I will try to be more sensitive.