Protein and Pyramiding

[matt41gb]

I believe that pyramiding occurs when a tortoise does not get to live a normal life. I believe it's caused by many things such as, lack of humidity (living inside), dehydration, poor diet, MBD, stress, nothing to rub the shell smooth, overfeeding, underfeeding, ect.... We cannot properly mimic their natural habitat, so it's hard to prevent pyramiding. I think we're focusing on just diet way too much. It's a lot of things combined, sometimes it's hard to look at the bigger picture.

-Matt

 

[onarock]

I agree and Balboa and GB make some good points as well. Its a total package. Over compensating one or two aspects of husbandry to get a smooth shell MIGHT be hiding other issues. Ive seen some pics of tortoises on here where one aspect is over compensated with beyond "natural" husbandry technique and what I'm seeing is reverse pyramiding, raised scute at the margin.

I believe that pyramiding occurs when a tortoise does not get to live a normal life. I believe it's caused by many things such as, lack of humidity (living inside), dehydration, poor diet, MBD, stress, nothing to rub the shell smooth, overfeeding, underfeeding, ect.... We cannot properly mimic their natural habitat, so it's hard to prevent pyramiding. I think we're focusing on just diet way too much. It's a lot of things combined, sometimes it's hard to look at the bigger picture.

-Matt

 

[SalSA]

I can't find the source where I read it (looking around for it) but I do remember a paper that said pyramiding was due to low humidity levels.

 

[Neal]

I can't find the source where I read it (looking around for it) but I do remember a paper that said pyramiding was due to low humidity levels.

That info is everywhere now adays. Most people seem to subscribe to that theory.

 

[jobeanator]

this is a interesting thread.. ive talked and asked my biology professor who is also a ecologist, and also the reptile keepers ive interned and worked with and they both came to different theories. My keeper ive worked with at the zoo, which has 0.2 radiated tortoises have slight pyramiding. The cornell vets that also come down to regularly check on them believe it was a hydration problem. Apparently, before the tortoises had arrived at the zoo i interned at, the pyramiding was worse. They believe now with also a change in diet and a constant supply of water has helped stop the affects of pyramiding. My professor didnt have a definite answer, but believes that obviously hydration, diet and excerise play a role in this, and also the sun too. We had looked at the struture in a pyramided tortoise shell compared to a tortoise with slight to no pyramiding shell and it was unreal how different it is. I honestly dont think youll find one correct answer, as there are many many different theories and possible answers.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Protein is not hard on a healthy liver and healthy kidneys.

Perhaps it was (falsely) causally associated with keratin in scute overgrowth, thereby imagined to drive pyramiding.

Protein helps drive growth. That can be in superior or inferior form, depending upon circumstances.

I my at-home experiments with Testudo species (primarily Hermann's) of years ago, a high-protein diet caused faster growth regardless of quality. If access to light, minerals, and moisture were in abundant supply, everything was gravy. When animals would come to me with some pyramiding already, there was sometimes better new growth and sometimes not. It depended on the individual animals in my experiences.

I encourage my animals to ingest protein, although I arrange this through vegetable sources unless it's a temperate or rain forest animal. In the latter cases, I provide an occasional animal source here and there, although I am not sure it matters too much.

I have never been a proponent of imposing artificially slow growth rates, either.

What do you consider being the best protein for European tortoises, specifically the Easterrn Hermann's?

Thanks in advance.