Pneumonia

[kmloughran]

So Mo has been diagnosed with pneumonia. We are giving him shots every three days. Has anyone dealt with this before? Mo’s a hearty little guy, but we are really worried. The vet at (UC Davis) didn’t say anything about survival rate, so I thought I’d ask you guys....

 

[Tom]

Without all the info of the case and the history, we can only take wild guesses.

Did the vet address, discover and correct the cause of the problem, or is he/she only treating the symptoms? I ask because most vets are quick to medicate, but never even try to figure out why and how the tortoise got sick in the first place. They don't get sick for no reason. Its usually because temps are too cold at night.

 

[kmloughran]

She says my enclosure seems fine. Ambient temp never gets below 84 degrees. Recently changed out coair for orchid bark. I’ve reduced the ambient humidity to 30% while continuing to offer a humid hide. Daytime temps range from 88 to 104 depending on the location in his enclosure.

I feel like his environment may have been too damp for too long before we switched him to the bark. We have fixed that issue, but the damage may have already been done.

Also may have happened (or been made worse) during the evacuation (Not Cal wildfires) and not having adequate housing for him for a couple of days. Also worsened by the smoke.

 

[wellington]

It wasn't because of the coir or it being too damp. Many are raised on damp coir that never dries and doesn't get sick. However, if temps dip below 80 for too long with the high humidity, that's when they get sick. My guess would be for the few days you evacuated he was not kept warm enough.

 

[Tom]

I think Barb is right. And the smoke might be a contributing factor too. I hope he pulls through and recovers.

30% humidity with a humid hide will result in some heavy pyramiding. He looks so smooth so far, it would be a shame to wreck it now. With those temps, humidity or dampness did not cause this problem.

 

[kmloughran]

We can’t get the humidity any higher than 30% with the bark. We will Work on raising the humidity back up after he gets better.

I’ve been following the care sheets to the letter, how can I work on raising the humidity once he is healthy again? I’d like to keep the paramyding to a minimum but getting him healthy is first priority.

Just worried...

 

[JoesMum]

Have we seen photos of the enclosure and lighting? Raising humidity requires:

1. A closed chamber to hold in the moisture and warmth - a lid, cover or plant tent over the enclosure.

2. An earthy substrate like fine grade orchid bark or coco coir. Large particle substrates and sandy substrates don’t hold the water well.

3. Substrate that is all damp, not just sprayed at the surface. Take all the decor out and tip some water in from a jug. Mix thoroughly with your hands. Repeat until all of it is damp right into the corners and right to the bottom.

 

[kmloughran]

I have posted enclosure photos in the past. I won't be home for a few days and will try to remember to take updated pictures (post orchid bark update). It is a closed environment. I use one of these.

Substrate is fine orchid bark. But it is not "earthy". Would you recommend mixing coair and bark? or just 100%orchid bark? He will be spewing about 5 months of the year in an indoor enclosure, so I really want to keep fine-tuning this thing. Thank you

 

[mark1]

with proper antibiotic therapy , from my experiences , recovery from bacterial respiratory infections is almost guaranteed ......... often the cause of a respiratory infection is near impossible to figure out ........ wild turtles die from respiratory infections ....... I have native turtles in my yard , a couple years ago one eastern box turtle that had lived there for 15yrs , never in need of anything , in there natural environment , never suffered a drought , never lack of food or water , perfect hibernacula conditions , sun , shade , I found him with a serious advanced respiratory infection , it was resistant to fortaz and required a second round of amikacin along with sub-q fluids, he successfully hibernated that same year .......... I've used semi closed environments indoors for as long as I can remember , when I was a kid I didn't , but when I started getting exotic species and hatchlings I always have .... I have learned even with a semi sealed environment , sanitary is pretty important , not only are these environments good for growing turtles but also molds , fungi and bacteria ........ personally I ventilate my enclosures in such a way that the incoming air has to pass over whatever type of incandescent bull , or ceramic heating element i'm using , usually the hot end ...........

 

[kmloughran]

Thanks for the suggestion. My enclosure ventilates on all 4 sides. Maybe I can fashion a sort of overlap to keep air from coming in through the cooler side? We defiantly keep his enclosure clean. No poops, pick up excess food each day, regularly change his water dish.

 

[Ramsey]

I have posted enclosure photos in the past. I won't be home for a few days and will try to remember to take updated pictures (post orchid bark update). It is a closed environment. I use one of these.
View attachment 221916
Substrate is fine orchid bark. But it is not "earthy". Would you recommend mixing coair and bark? or just 100%orchid bark? He will be spewing about 5 months of the year in an indoor enclosure, so I really want to keep fine-tuning this thing. Thank you

Something isn't right here. Maybe I missed if you mentioned, but do you keep the top closed?

What humidity guage are you using? With a garden bed like that enclosed, you should not have a hard time keeping 80% humidity even with orchid bark. So long as you keep it damp, it will certainly be much higher than 30%.

 

[kmloughran]

Yeah the lid is on 100% of the time, but there is about a 1/2 inch - 1 inch gap all around, so plenty of air circulation happens/humidity is lost.

Our “fine” orchid bark consists of (slightly less than) dime sized pieces of bark..... is that not “fine”? Was ours mid-labeled? Honestly, the sub layer can be moist to the point of almost wet, but the top layer will be dried out completely and the humidity will remain he same....

We had a much higher consistent humidity when we were using coair. But while we were using the coair is when we noticed a change in his breathing (a whistling). We thought the coair may have gotten lodged in his sinus and was causing some inflammation, so we erred on the side of caution and switched his substrate. We hoped that they would do a saliene flush and he’d be better, but that was not the case.

They took X-rays. They found an opacity in his lungs that was indicative of pneumonia, so that’s what we’re treating him for.

So I’m nervous to put him back in a humid environment because apparently he’s not good enough at “self regulating” to put himself in a place that is warm enough, even when there places throughout his enclosure that are various temperatures all throughout the day.

His enclosure has three different temperature zones. One is a constant 87 degrees.... one fluctuates between 103 and 86..... one fluctuates between 95 and 84.......

I’ve been led to believe that all these temperatures are within safe temperatures for leopard tortoises.

 

[teresaf]

If those are the real temps...what are you using to read temps? Cool temps cause pneumonia. I suspect somewhere in his enclosure isn't the temp you think. You should check inside his humid hide and in the corners away from the light. You should have more than one Thermometer/hygrometer to verify each other. I use these...

 

[kmloughran]

I use two of these, one connected to a 100W CHE, one connected to a 60W Che, I have another CHE on full time to help set a more consistent ambient temp.

I also have two of these. One set in the main area of the enclosure, and one attached to the inside of his humid hide to keep track of the ambient temp/humidity inside there.

 

[kmloughran]

I also have a temp gun that I use to take occasional readings on the floor/surfaces of his enclosure occasionally (if the temp in the house seems abnormally cool), just to be sure that his area is maintaining appropriate temperatures. During cooler months, if temps seem to be dropping, we cover his ceiling with a blanket, to help retain more warmth at night.