Please help STAT! (Straining to pass stool)

[zovick]

Hi Zovick,
I'm sorry to trouble you. I took the tort to a vet--but he wasn't a herp vet. He told me to administer Flagyl for colitis. We had no stool sample to give because Zeus has has not produced anything since the scary BM that I posted the pics of.
I have not given the med as yet. I'm loathe to treat without a diagnosis.
Has this ever happened to a tort of yours? If so, what did you do?

Thank you very very sincerely for any advice or even ideas that you might have.

Hi. I don't think it would hurt anything to try using the Flagyl. After you have given the tortoise the full course of treatments with Flagyl, you can restore the normal gut flora by putting Bene-Bac powder on his food. When you look for Bene-Bac just be sure to get the type used for reptiles and birds because there is another type for mammals.

 

[Markw84]

I'm tending to agree with Bill @zovick here. Metronidazole - Flagyl is the drug of choice for flagellates A common sign of over infestation of Flagellates is mucous laden stools. At this point I would think that is a good course of action. The problem is with not wanting to eat and extreme lethargy is indicating the issue is getting worse - so something needs to be done.

 

[Kasia]

I have limited expirience but in protozoa I would expect diahorea not severe constipation. No stool sample or a swab was examined under microscope. I would not assume that Flagyl is what he needs... Probably a good vet and more diagnostic work would be a better idea.

 

[zovick]

I have limited expirience but in protozoa I would expect diahorea not severe constipation. No stool sample or a swab was examined under microscope. I would not assume that Flagyl is what he needs... Probably a good vet and more diagnostic work would be a better idea.

I understand what you are saying, but he has already stated that there are no reptile vets in his area, so he went to another vet who has already given him the medication. That being the case, if he has bought and paid for the medication, he may as well use it, IMHO.

Second point is that perhaps the tortoise is not constipated, but rather feeling pain in its gut which is causing the posturing which has been observed.

 

[Kasia]

I do understand and respect your point. Mine is that I don't see as much benefit to it as you and Mark.

 

[Shaif]

@Shaif
About the probiotics you ask...I have unfortunately researched the same thing...
There is non except another same species tortoise healthy poop administered orally or spread in your tortoise soak.
I used Metronidazole on my leo heavy infestation and it is an ultimate healthy gut flora killer. It took few months to recover after the treatment. His poop still stinks unusually bad. I would not recommend metronidazole treatment unless your 150% sure that is needed.
Did you noticed loose stools before the straining/constipation?

Thank you. I agree that it is difficult to treat without a diagnosis. And like you said, every Drug has side effects.

 

[Kasia]

How is he doing?

 

[Shaif]

I understand what you are saying, but he has already stated that there are no reptile vets in his area, so he went to another vet who has already given him the medication. That being the case, if he has bought and paid for the medication, he may as well use it, IMHO.

Second point is that perhaps the tortoise is not constipated, but rather feeling pain in its gut which is causing the posturing which has been observed.

Very very very much appreciated. And I think you are right-- at this point I need to at least try something.
I'm mixing the Med in some cucumber and will try to feed it.

Thank you so much for helping. I feel lost.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

The cucumber will help flush the system and get moisture inside Zeus, too.
Worth a try at this point, I feel.

 

[Kasia]

Did you consider getting back to your vet and asking him for a cloaca swab, blood work and a X-ray? Results are yours so if you want to consult somebody else you already have them... just saying...

 

[Shaif]

Guys!!!!

I was mixing the Med to give to Zeus. And I was soaking him. He was straining so so much. There was a very very large fecal ball in his cloaca. It was really hard and stuck. I watched him try to work it out, but he couldn't. So I got tweezers.
I gently took hold of it and wiggled. I did this several times.
A giant encapsulated ball of dense feces came out. It was half the size of Zeus.
I've put it in a bag and will take it to the vet tomorrow.

Zeus still will not eat, but he is walking around and is more alert.

I will keep you posted as soon as I learn anything.

Seriously, THANK YOU! All your thoughts and ideas and experience is incredibly helpful.

For now, I'll keep soaking and offering cucumber and opunta.

You guys are the best.

 

[Kasia]

Yeeey.....
His poor little butt...

 

[Kasia]

It's strange how often TFO people will be so happy about a huge POoP
LOL

 

[Shaif]

It's strange how often TFO people will be so happy about a huge POoP
LOL

LOL! Yes.

It was like the poor tortoise was delivering a baby.

 

[zovick]

Going back to something I said a while ago, if the tortoise's intestinal tract has been impacted (blocked) for a long time, it is quite possible that there is necrotic bowel tissue caused by lack of circulation due to pressure on the blood vessels from the large object. This could explain that previous mass which he passed.

IMHO, giving the tortoise some type of antibiotics at this point is a good idea because necrotic tissue often becomes infected. The Flagyl is a good start, but this tortoise is not out of the woods yet. Necrotic bowel tissue is a dangerous thing. Hopefully he passed this mass before the bowel became necrotic, but only time will tell now.

 

[zovick]

Guys!!!!

I was mixing the Med to give to Zeus. And I was soaking him. He was straining so so much. There was a very very large fecal ball in his cloaca. It was really hard and stuck. I watched him try to work it out, but he couldn't. So I got tweezers.
I gently took hold of it and wiggled. I did this several times.
A giant encapsulated ball of dense feces came out. It was half the size of Zeus.
I've put it in a bag and will take it to the vet tomorrow.

Zeus still will not eat, but he is walking around and is more alert.

I will keep you posted as soon as I learn anything.

Seriously, THANK YOU! All your thoughts and ideas and experience is incredibly helpful.

For now, I'll keep soaking and offering cucumber and opunta.

You guys are the best.

You should refrigerate the fecal ball in a sealed plastic bag, but do not freeze it.

 

[Shaif]

Going back to something I said a while ago, if the tortoise's intestinal tract has been impacted (blocked) for a long time, it is quite possible that there is necrotic bowel tissue caused by lack of circulation due to pressure on the blood vessels from the large object. This could explain that previous mass which he passed.

IMHO, giving the tortoise some type of antibiotics at this point is a good idea because necrotic tissue often becomes infected. The Flagyl is a good start, but this tortoise is not out of the woods yet. Necrotic bowel tissue is a dangerous thing. Hopefully he passed this mass before the bowel became necrotic, but only time will tell now.

Absolutely agree. Necrosis would be horrible. And passing such a large stool will definitely have damaged his bowel. I've been trying to get the flagyl in his mouth. He won't eat, so mixing it in cucumber didn't work. I can't open his tiny mouth to get a syringe in it.
I got frustrated and had to stop-- I don't want to hurt him.
I'll try again though.

 

[Gillian M]

LOL! Yes.

It was like the poor tortoise was delivering a baby.

I seem to have understood that things are better. Right?

Hope to hear a big "YES!"

 

[Shaif]

I seem to have understood that things are better. Right?

Hope to hear a big "YES!"

Thank you, Gillian. I don't know. Zeus still will not eat, and I can't get the medicine in him. I'm soaking him 3x per day and I give him cucumber and cactus, but he just walks back to his hide and sleeps all day.

 

[zovick]

Thank you, Gillian. I don't know. Zeus still will not eat, and I can't get the medicine in him. I'm soaking him 3x per day and I give him cucumber and cactus, but he just walks back to his hide and sleeps all day.

The tortoise needs to have a feeding tube put in so you can give him adequate nutrition plus the proper dosages of medications without him having to eat anything. This tube is inserted into the stomach through a small incision in the neck and it will not keep the tortoise from eating on his own when and if it wants to do so. If this is not done, I think there is a good chance that your tortoise will die from this problem he is having. You need to take him to a reptile vet who can do this. Post your zip code and I will search for the nearest one to you.

Are there any vet schools in the Pittsburgh area? That is another option, plus if there are, there is a better chance of there being a reptile vet in the general area who trained at the school and then went into private practice.