phayrei keep growing

[Kapidolo Farms]

The image with six tortoises and the first single, are from just a few days after hatching in late July 2013. The image on the 3 x 5 card and the next photo are at about two months old. The last few are from two days ago, they are now about doubled in size. It's the same tray that is holding the six and the four. Will

 

[happyjoyjoy]

Their Adorable!

 

[wellington]

Nice growth and love the colors.

 

[Yvonne G]

Lookin' good, Will! I wonder why they are so much browner than mine? Mine are black.

 

[diamondbp]

Wow very very impressive

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Re: RE: phayrei keep growing

Lookin' good, Will! I wonder why they are so much browner than mine? Mine are black.

A few other people have mentioned the same thing. I don't know what could be the cause of that difference.

Will

 

[sibi]

Wow...they certainly have grown....big! Beautiful specimens.

 

[emysbreeder]

The image with six tortoises and the first single, are from just a few days after hatching in late July 2013. The image on the 3 x 5 card and the next photo are at about two months old. The last few are from two days ago, they are now about doubled in size. It's the same tray that is holding the six and the four. Will

Will, Congrads on hatching out phayrei! Their grouth rates very on the weight of the female breeder and their weight at birth. Of cource what you feed them at what temp. matters too. Older heavy females that are 75+ lbs can have 55 gram babies where 40 lbs. (phayrei's min. weight for viable eggs) may only weigh 35-37 grams. The grouth rate for the first year follows this too. Huge 80-90 lbs can have less eggs 55 instead of 65-70 but they will weigh 65-69 grams and the grouth rate can be three times what they were from the same tortoise the year before. I call these "Superchamps". I normally find a 50 gram baby can be a very healthy not fat 250 to300 grams in one year. If the Carapace scutes grow upward and not dimpled or recessed in the center they are growing to fast. Have you noticed the supracaudals flaring up? Its hard not to get it but will start in the first three weeks. Its a sign of over feeding but can be turned around quickly by cutting back. I give them a cuttle bone or Collard stem to pasafy them and Romain a few times a week as "diet food" I call it "crunchy water". The best of luck/skil to you on your adventure in DEFYING DESTINY. Vic Morgan

---

Lookin' good, Will! I wonder why they are so much browner than mine? Mine are black.

Mine are almost always brown with black marginals but a few per clutch are black. Vic

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Destiny is the name of a cute girl that dances or sings to entertain people, not the result of sound husbandry.

I feed in abundance, their growth is excellent and the upturn on the rear marginals is absent, no pine cone scales on the legs and the scute compression is based on hydration and humidity. They grow as well as they are kept. These are growing well. Thanks for to encouragement.

Bigger babies do make better doers, I agree. These all are excellent doers.

 

[emysbreeder]

Destiny is the name of a cute girl that dances or sings to entertain people, not the result of sound husbandry.

I feed in abundance, their growth is excellent and the upturn on the rear marginals is absent, no pine cone scales on the legs and the scute compression is based on hydration and humidity. They grow as well as they are kept. These are growing well. Thanks for to encouragement.

Bigger babies do make better doers, I agree. These all are excellent doers.

Defying Destiny is the name of my Mt.Tortoise reserve. I came up with this after helping the TSA (founding member) with the 2000/01 rescue of a 4.5 ton confacscated shipment of turtles headed for China. I was talking to a Vet. Dr.Tabaca about the massave amount of sick turtles/tortoises and said "if any of these animals live and reproduce we will have "defyed their destiny". I was in charge of the Manouria. Along with his relentless help and others, some tortoises including the ones I took home were reproducing in less than two years. So, when I tell someone they are defying destiny it is a complament of the highest degree. I now have been studying this species for over 25 years. I have bred a 2nd.generation of phayrei and emys emys. I own and manage the biggest and most prolific collection of Manouria emys anywhere in the world. (offspring 23 years in a roe). They are kept in huge 3000 to 9000sf. outside naturalistic enclosures per pair. Not cattle troffs in a apartment. No breeding loans, grants, 501c3 "adulption" BS just pure natural born bustass. I wanted to help the next generation of keepers with honest work, not vishions of the anointed. You are the reason I will never post here again. Vic Morgan.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

The adults of these are based on those that hatched at the Honolulu Zoo in the late 70's early 80's and the husbandry techniques of Sean, and a few other imports added along the way. They are outside in the arduous climate of the central valley of California, modified with a rain systems, and night houses. No cattle troughs or big melamine boxes like the successful European breeders of all the Manouria genus.

Vic, it seems your experience and set ups let the tortoises do what they do, thrive, good job. And as you point out, all ongoing years before TSA et al. even ever existed. Give yourself the more credit, than those others. It's your doing not theirs. Florida climate might help some too.

When, where, and what you post is all your own responsibility big guy, nothing to do with me.

Destiny is the name of a cute girl that dances or sings to entertain people, not the result of sound husbandry.

I feed in abundance, their growth is excellent and the upturn on the rear marginals is absent, no pine cone scales on the legs and the scute compression is based on hydration and humidity. They grow as well as they are kept. These are growing well. Thanks for to encouragement.

Bigger babies do make better doers, I agree. These all are excellent doers.

Defying Destiny is the name of my Mt.Tortoise reserve. I came up with this after helping the TSA (founding member) with the 2000/01 rescue of a 4.5 ton confacscated shipment of turtles headed for China. I was talking to a Vet. Dr.Tabaca about the massave amount of sick turtles/tortoises and said "if any of these animals live and reproduce we will have "defyed their destiny". I was in charge of the Manouria. Along with his relentless help and others, some tortoises including the ones I took home were reproducing in less than two years. So, when I tell someone they are defying destiny it is a complament of the highest degree. I now have been studying this species for over 25 years. I have bred a 2nd.generation of phayrei and emys emys. I own and manage the biggest and most prolific collection of Manouria emys anywhere in the world. (offspring 23 years in a roe). They are kept in huge 3000 to 9000sf. outside naturalistic enclosures per pair. Not cattle troffs in a apartment. No breeding loans, grants, 501c3 "adulption" BS just pure natural born bustass. I wanted to help the next generation of keepers with honest work, not vishions of the anointed. You are the reason I will never post here again. Vic Morgan.

 

[Tom]

Vic,

We appreciate what you share with us here. Letting one guy upset you with a few words, and departing the forum forever will NOT "help the next generation of keepers with honest work..."

If you don't want to be here and help the Manouria noobs, that's cool. I get it. But don't blame it on Will or anybody else that says something you don't like. If all of us left every time someone said something we didn't like, there would be nothing but a bunch of brand new members here trying to tell each other what to do. Please stick around and continue to help out, for the sake of the tortoises.

And say hi to Mr. MJ for me!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hey, Vic:

I can't begin to know what someone has in their mind when they write something on the Forum, but my best guess is that Will was trying to be funny when he made the Destiny comment. He does have a very dry sense of humor and is sometimes hard to "get."

Please understand that the Manouria keepers here on the Forum are very pleased that you are a member here and are willing to share your experience with us. Personally, I look forward to what you have to say.