Outward signs of MBD?

[leigti]

Hello, I just found out that my Tortoise has an BD. I have looked at many threads about MBD but none of them have given a good description of what the signs are. I.e. shell shape, Blinns, etc. could anybody please tell me what these are, I feel bad that I didn't realize my Tortoise have it until now. Also my Tortoise was at the vet two months ago and she never said anything, she said he looked great. She has only ever mentioned signs of a serious old injury that happened before I got him but nothing about MBD ever. I didn't think my Tortoise might be female but she thought Mail, that doesn't really matter to me except healthwise, such as eggs etc. We have done one x-ray and there were no eggs. So I would like to educate her as well. She is the only reptile vet for at least 50 miles so I can't go to a different vet.
Here are some pictures of my Tortoise if somebody could explain to me what the signs of an BDR on him or her thank you.

 

[dmmj]

She looks female BTW
MBD is usually odd shape of the shell, weak bones etc.
I look at you tortoise's shell, and the shell looks sort of like a hat from the top and side, it should be uniformly round. Plus I think the flaring of the edges.

 

[naturalman91]

sorry i can't help as i've never expierenced it but i can say those nailed need trimmed

 

[dmmj]

sorry i can't help as i've never expierenced it but i can say those nailed need trimmed

Oh god yes. Trim ASAP please, didn't even notice that.

 

[leigti]

Thank you very much for the responses. I thought the nails needed trimmed also, especially the back ones, but the vet said they were fine. I am having less confidence in the vet by the second. Do I just use regular clippers, such as for my cat to trim them or a regular nail clipper for a person? I know the back ones are pretty bad but what about the front ones?

 

[dmmj]

The nails on the front need a trim, you can use animal or human clippers. Just avoid the quick, like dogs and cats have.

 

[Tom]

I see some nice outdoor pens there. Does this tortoise spend warm days outside? Do you hibernate her? How long have you had her and how was she cared for prior to you getting her? What do you feed her?

 

[leigti]

Yes that is Her pen, it is an L-shaped enclosure 10' x 15'and she is out there all summer and whenever the weather is good in the spring in the fall. I have had her, still not used to calling him on her , for a year and a half. I have no idea the tortoises history. The vet did say that there is an old healed crush injury as if somebody had stepped on her and the top shelf was broken halfway around. The show was not curled up when I got her, I was worried about it but when I looked it up on the forum most of the posts said don't worry about it. Indoors enclosure is 2' x 6' with a power send Bob that I replaced after one year. I thought I was feeding a very good diet, many of the things that you list when you give people suggestions, but I guess it wasn't enough. I didn't supplement calcium, she won't touch the cuttlebone but it is always there. I feel so bad that I did this to her. Do you think there's a possibility there are eggs and that is taking up a lot of calcium? She was x-rayed about a year ago and there were none.

 

[leigti]

Oh I forgot, I have not hibernated her and I have no idea of her history. I got her from a local pet store that doesn't know anything about tortoises. They could not give me a history either.

 

[Tom]

I seriously doubt you have a case of MBD there. It just doesn't make sense. The shell does look a little "off" but not off in a MBD way. I bet it looks that way due to the old injuries. While your tortoise may not be cosmetically perfect due to its rough history before you got it, I'll bet it is super healthy on the inside.

You know a lot of vets are completely clueless when it comes to tortoises. I have no idea whether your vet has a clue or not, but I am not seeing MBD there. Does your tortoise lift up its rear end and walk normally? Appetite good? Did the vet run blood to check calcium and D3 levels? I hate to see you beating yourself up when it sounds like you have done everything right.

And I wouldn't trim those nails either. Russians are supposed to have somewhat long claws for all that digging. Maybe add some sand stone or concrete pavers to the enclosure for extra wear and tear on those claws, but I wouldn't trim them just yet. Just my opinion.

 

[leigti]

Thanks Tommy are making me feel better. There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what MBD looks like. I have not had his calcium and D3 checked, wouldn't MBD show up on an x-ray, the vet didn't say anything about it. I looked at the x-rays but what the heck do I know I put a post in the health section a couple days ago about him I mean her garnet dragging the bottom shell when she walks. There is a picture there that I took when she was walking, I couldn't figure how to download video. But she does drag her shell. This is just started in the last couple months from what I can tell. Person there said it may be because of old injuries also and that the bottom shows growing faster than the top shelf. What do you think?

 

[Tom]

Because your tortoise gets sunshine (or a MVB in winter), exercise and a good diet, I am going to guess that these things are related to the previous crushing injury.

Advanced MBD can be seen in X-rays by someone with lots of experience. Bones in an advanced MBD animal will appear less dense on an X-ray.

 

[leigti]

So should I just continue what I'm doing? Do you think he or she will be able to not drag the Shelmont walking one of these days? Maybe I should still supplement looks a little calcium now and then or maybe just feed cactus more often?

 

[leigti]

Her appetite is very good. I will add some more rocks and pavers to the enclosure to wear down the nails. She has grown 1/2 inch longer and 1/2 inch wider in the year and a half that I've had her. Is that a good growth rate?

 

[Yvonne G]

The reason I said I thought your tortoise was suffering from MBD was because you said it can't lift itself up off the ground when it walks, but rather drags the shell. This, coupled with the deformed shell told me that the bones are weak and that the tortoise is suffering from MBD.

Of course, I could be all wet. I was just going by what you've told us and what I see in the picture.

 

[leigti]

I appreciate everybody's input. I don't know the answer either. All anybody can go by is the information given, sometimes I don't know what information to give to make the situation more clear. But I am not ruling anything out at this time. I will supplement with calcium and get the x-rays done. I just want the best for my Tortoise and thought I was doing everything right so I was a little confused. I will put out an update after I take her to the vet this week. I did have a sneaking feeling that she was a girl from what I've seen on this forum.

 

[WillTort2]

You may want to order a powdered supplement for Russian tortoises. It's called TNT and is available from Carolina Pet Supply online.

I've been using it for 2 years now and it seems to promote good health. I sprinkle a little on about twice a week. It made from dried and ground weeds.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Having eggs won't do this. She is unlikely to be gravid.

Let the nails take care of themselves. These look fine to me. If you absolutely must clip, use a curved blade like the ones meant for birds or cats. It leaves a cleaner cut & doesn't flatten the claws in the process. But nails should be long.

Shells should be regular in shape. The shell here is the wrong shape, and that's usually MBD in some form. When it looks like the plastron (bottom shell) is larger than usual, as it does here, when the top shell is small & turns up at the edges, thats a symptom of mbd. They do not normally grow at different rates. There may be flaring at the edges, but not over the head, and not in a ruffled irregular way.

You can stop it. Look at every aspect of your care and see what you can improve, from substrate & humidity to bulb to diet.

The internal bones & organs may be okay still, but they will be affected over time if it isn't halted.

 

[leigti]

Thank you for the comments. I actually do use the TNT powder in the winter and I do like it. I got the one with probiotics last time and I think I will stick with it. I am definitely looking over all aspects of her care. I am supplementing with calcium three times a week now, I think the diet is pretty good so I will continue with it. I will try to get more natural things for winter, tritest feed only the Russian seed mix stuff in the winter and herbal hey. I think I will still get an x-ray however if anything just to put my mind at ease. The nails are not a huge concern to me but I have cat nail clippers if I need to use them or I may just ask the vet to trim a tiny bit off when we're there. Most of this really funky show growth has only been in the last three months or so so I'm hoping that the summer outdoors and some changes on my part can try to nip it in the bud now. I don't care about the cosmetic defects I just want my Tortoise to be healthy. I appreciate all the help everybody is giving me.