Out door heating and wiring questions!

[luke]

Has anyone out there ever converted an indoor, closed chamber, enclosure into an out door enclosure?

Well this is what I want to do with my old indoor box.

I will be using a 250 CHE screwed into your standard porcelain bulb fixture. My plan is to run a thick, short, extension chord out to my patio and connect the CHE with a Thermostat. I'm housing two red foots and I want to keep them outside over winter if possible.

Has anyone out there had success using a similar set up? Is anyone familiar with using these types of fixtures in outdoor applications? Do you think I should run conduit?

 

[mike taylor]

Re: Out door heating and wireing questions!

I would run conduit on any outdoor electrical. Paint your enclosure to water proof it add some kind of roofing material to the roof . Wire it up using conduits And boxes that are for outdoor locations . Many people don't under stand animals are sensitive to electrical especially hoofed animals so a good ground is a must . Don't just wire up a cord and run it along the ground and plug it in . If there is a Nick in the cord you or your tortoise will pay for it . When it comes to power of any kind do it right or its a fire waiting to happen .

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[N2TORTS]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

Luke .... good thinking on the conduit ... but lets start with the enclosure.
From the pic I can see a problem already if you are not planning on covering the cage with a tarp. Look at the bottom corners where the slider joint area is , water will collect is this area and eventually destroy/rot the area away, along with warpage. Why when building an outdoor enclosure you make sure all your joints overlap and point down. This will allow for water run off . A simple solution for you would be to add a " roof " that is larger than top of your cage. Make sure this too has an angle. Rule of thumb is 2% or 1/4" per foot. Also make sure it has eves that protrude past your enclosure L x W. Simple ¼” ply wood would work , then run some asphalt shingles over it .
Ok ...now the conduit ...just use cheap PVC , but to use your cord you have to snip off one end to slide it thru. Make sure if your going to splice it give yourself enough to work with . Better yet snip the male end , and just wire a new "male plug" . Use a 14-3 wire ( it has a ground) and if possible hook to a GFI circuit . Other than that your good to go …
Also with the PVC …you can leave it exposed and paint it green or brown .. To match you surrounding area.

HAPPY BUILDING!

JD~

 

[stu]

Out door heating and wireing questions!

As long as your box is water proof and the cable has no way for water to drip down it and into the box it should be fine. I converted a rabbit hutch. Insulating it and added a three layer plastic sheet of plastic where just cage was and it works great. In fact too well, it gets to hot so I've had to add vents. Just get a water proof outdoor socket and make sure water cane get into the electrics this can be done simply by ensuring the wire hangs lower outside the box than in. it's dark now so I can't take photos of the electrics.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Re: Out door heating and wireing questions!

Do you want them in the chamber outside, locked up or do you want them to have access to the outside and the chamber is a "tort house" retreat for them?
My advice to you will differ based on which of these 2 set ups you are wanting.

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[stu]

Out door heating and wireing questions!

I forgot to mention the small wood door at the right opens so that it becomes a ramp for them to come in and out of during the days it is warm enough for then to be outside.

 

[N2TORTS]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

Here is an outdoor enclosure made from old doors. Completely water tight , with heat and lighting within. I ran power out to the unit the same way as discussed above. The unit itself has hinged top door for complete access , while a front door folds down to provide a ramp ...

The unit can be completely shut and locked up at anytime.


The whole thing sits on oak pallets to keep it off the ground ~

JD~:shy:

 

[DevilsLettuce]

Out door heating and wireing questions!

Here is an outdoor enclosure made from old doors. Completely water tight , with heat and lighting within. I ran power out to the unit the same way as discussed above. The unit itself has hinged top door for complete access , while a front door folds down to provide a ramp ...

The unit can be completely shut and locked up at anytime.


The whole thing sits on oak pallets to keep it off the ground ~

JD~:shy:

Who's the artist at the Cove'? You or your ol' lady?

 

[N2TORTS]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

Me~:shy:

---

although I wouldn’t consider my self an artist ...more of a back yard flunky!

 

[luke]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

Luke .... good thinking on the conduit ... but lets start with the enclosure.
From the pic I can see a problem already if you are not planning on covering the cage with a tarp. Look at the bottom corners where the slider joint area is , water will collect is this area and eventually destroy/rot the area away, along with warpage. Why when building an outdoor enclosure you make sure all your joints overlap and point down. This will allow for water run off . A simple solution for you would be to add a " roof " that is larger than top of your cage. Make sure this too has an angle. Rule of thumb is 2% or 1/4" per foot. Also make sure it has eves that protrude past your enclosure L x W. Simple ¼” ply wood would work , then run some asphalt shingles over it .
Ok ...now the conduit ...just use cheap PVC , but to use your cord you have to snip off one end to slide it thru. Make sure if your going to splice it give yourself enough to work with . Better yet snip the male end , and just wire a new "male plug" . Use a 14-3 wire ( it has a ground) and if possible hook to a GFI circuit . Other than that your good to go …
Also with the PVC …you can leave it exposed and paint it green or brown .. To match you surrounding area.

HAPPY BUILDING!

JD~

Thanks for posting this. The more I look at it the more I think a roof/oning is the best way to go to make sure things stay "dry", I'm glad to see you think so too. I do have other problems that I should mention now. I live in an apartment, the tort box is going to be just outside my kitchen along one side of my small patio. There are no outlets outside and I wlll have to run wire thru a sliding screen door unless I can find an alternative .
I'll definitely try cheap PVC for conduit.

I might just ask the management or the maintenance staff to see if they can help me out with the electrical or at least tell me what my options are.

Thanks for posting those pics BTW. I'm getting more and more Ideas for future enclosures.

---

Do you want them in the chamber outside, locked up or do you want them to have access to the outside and the chamber is a "tort house" retreat for them?
My advice to you will differ based on which of these 2 set ups you are wanting.

Sent from my TFOapp

I'm keeping the Tort Box out doors. If its warm and I want them to have sun or w/e i'll take them out on to the patio. Otherwise they will stay in the Box day and night. The turtles can not use the enclosure as a retreat because it is closed off and sits 3.5 feet above the ground.

 

[Tom]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

Outdoors in Washington over winter? You'll need some serious insulation. Your 250 watt CHE will not be enough and the hot spot directly under it might get too hot. I think need to buy or build a large shed and do some serious insulating. There reaches a point where throwing out more electricity and heat is not going to do you any good, if the heat just escapes through plywood walls.

In all honesty, I can't recommend this at all. One power outage overnight while you are sleeping and your tortoises will literally freeze to death. These are tropical tortoises. They need to be indoors over winter in a climate like yours.

 

[Neal]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

I think I saw the same thing in one of Toms pictures, but can one procure a small reflective metal sheet at their local Home Depot or Lowes?

 

[N2TORTS]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

yes Neal .. ... already cut for you ...( they have several sizes) just in case you don't have snips . Same with the *ceramic base* ....
For the OP
Tom has a very valid point ... and one I wonder about things like he mentioned many times as scroll thru here and read about collectors who live in "freeze zones". I'm in So Cal..and I still have a back up generator for that .. " just in case" . As it can get nippy....and for redfoots anything below 70....your asking for trouble. Now on a happier note ... it can be done....
As far as the apartment ....heck no biggie ..(they will keep most your deposit anyhow) Kitchen outlet is good because it will be a GFI ( or should be ) find an inconspicuous spot and just drill thru the wall with a 1/2" masonry bit. Stay clear of your plumbing for the sink , up around your window line go 6 " over just drill right thru the drywall and stucco ( or what ever exterior covering you have)It's easy to patch when you move out. ..... Now if you live in a brick house/Apt .. different ball game .
#2 Idea ... look for Elec on the Apt grounds outside and hotwire into it ~
Most of your walkway lights or " Malibu" lights are low-voltage you will need to find a source.

 

[DevilsLettuce]

Out door heating and wireing questions!

Me~:shy:

---

although I wouldn’t consider my self an artist ...more of a back yard flunky!

---

Nice......
I need to get you over here to decorate my area...

 

[jaizei]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

I might just ask the management or the maintenance staff to see if they can help me out with the electrical or at least tell me what my options are.

I think this is your best option, might save you headaches later.

Are you concerned about security at all? Is the area around your patio common or separated?

 

[mike taylor]

Re: Out door heating and wireing questions!

I would think about moving to a rent house with a yard . You don't want to put people in harms way by making fire hazards. Put heating devices in a wooden enclosures wired with cords not a good idea . I've been an electrician for 14years if you don't know what you are doing things can and will go bad fast.

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[Levi the Leopard]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

I don't recommend you keep them in the closed chamber outside.

For one, your temps will fluctuate too much. Another reason, what's the point of them being outside if they are still in the chamber? There is no added benefit to this, only additional hurdles.

I think you should keep the chamber indoors. On nice days, give them some outside time but I wouldn't set up the chamber out there for winter/full time living.

 

[sibi]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

I would be very uncomfortable converting your indoor chamber into an outside enclosure. It would not stand the cold winter days. Frankly, it's too small to insulate and add conduit. Is it possible to rent a house with a backyard and a shed that can be converted into an outdoor enclosure? Otherwise, keep things as they are until your living situation changes.

 

[luke]

RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

Outdoors in Washington over winter? You'll need some serious insulation. Your 250 watt CHE will not be enough and the hot spot directly under it might get too hot. I think need to buy or build a large shed and do some serious insulating. There reaches a point where throwing out more electricity and heat is not going to do you any good, if the heat just escapes through plywood walls.

In all honesty, I can't recommend this at all. One power outage overnight while you are sleeping and your tortoises will literally freeze to death. These are tropical tortoises. They need to be indoors over winter in a climate like yours.

I live in California again. I need to change that profile. I was in Washington for just over two years but now I'm back in socal and my torts love it.

Do you think this set up could work here in cali if I use some kind of roof cover for the enclosure and some additional insulation?

I'm thinking a two piece insulation panel to cover the Plexi, which is probably the biggest source of heat loss. Somthing I can snap in at night and tuck away during the day. I might also do somthing with the roof.

---

I don't recommend you keep them in the closed chamber outside.

For one, your temps will fluctuate too much. Another reason, what's the point of them being outside if they are still in the chamber? There is no added benefit to this, only additional hurdles.

I think you should keep the chamber indoors. On nice days, give them some outside time but I wouldn't set up the chamber out there for winter/full time living.

When we moved down from Washington we had to down size. We are now in a 1 bed room and I have an 11 month old baby. Things have been changing a lot recently. The up-side of having the Box outside is that its not inside taking up a ton of space. Its also easier to clean tortoise messes outside since you don't have to worry about spilling. The temps do not fluctuate too much that I've seen this passed week. The box only see's about 3 hours of sun light a day since its up against a two story bldg. and there are also tall trees around providing shade. I've seen the temps get up to the high 90's. I don't think that's too hot. I'll have to keep monitoring to make sure it doesn't get worse.

If this idea doesnt work I'll just bring the box back in and go from there. But its a big box for our little apt.

 

[mike taylor]

Re: RE: Out door heating and wireing questions!

I would think about moving to a rent house with a yard . You don't want to put people in harms way by making fire hazards. Put heating devices in a wooden enclosures wired with cords not a good idea . I've been an electrician for 14years if you don't know what you are doing things can and will go bad fast.

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Mike that's your whole house! ........

CA. - B1 #559497

I'm just saying I would not just throw something together. Without making sure it's safe . When you wire your home it's wired to codes and ul listed electric equipment. Not extension cords . You know would hate to hear someone burned down the house with a missed wired heat lamp . Thats all just whatever you do just use the right things don't just slap it in and say that will do .

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