Our new indoor pen

[Weeble257]

Here is our new indoor pen - it's 8x4. It has a red foot, two Russians and a young Sulcata. It had been used for a pig, that is why it is higher. We will put a uv and heat lamp in over the weekend.

 

[wellington]

This species should not be together. Species should not be mixed. The Russians need a different climate then the RF and Sulcata. Also, the Russians can get pretty mean and territorial and will most likely hurt the sulcata and bully each other too. Please get them all in their own enclosure. I didn't even go into the different diseases they could pass to each other that they are not immune too

 

[lismar79]

It is a nice size enclosure but is not recommended to keep diff species together. A nice sized rubber made tote per tort would fix that. Each of these species also have diff temp and humidity requirements too. What works for a red food to be healthy is not good for a russian. Torts are solitary creature and they should not be with a companion unless it is a huge area and then only with its kind. Bulling is like to happen for this set up and one or more of your tort will suffer please go to each species sub catagory link and read up on proper care for them specifically. Your torts will be much better off. Your sulcata already looks to have some pyramiding which means he is not getting the right humidity to grow smooth. You will need to give this guy some calcium too if you are not already. This is a great place to learn, please ask a lot of questions.
Here are those links:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...together-a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

 

[wellington]

I don't see the sulcata in the pic. The RF is pyramided, but quite big. The totes mentioned is really too small for all the torts I see in the pic. Russians need a big space even though they are small and two together usually is never a good outcome. The RF will need its own big enclosure because of its size. If the sulcata is small, he could possibly be in a tote for a short while. Toms threads for raising a smooth sulcata is below in my post. Please read them. Your RF also needs a higher humidity and your Russians only need 30-40 % humidity.

 

[Weeble257]

Thanks for the advice and the links. I never knew they shouldn't be together. Wellington, you are right, the sulcata is not in the photo, she is up closer to the door. We just adopted the RF last week and I did notice she has some pyramiding. I was not aware of the need for higher humidity. She came with a nice table that I wasn't planning on using, but will work on getting it set up for her. The russians are male and female and have been together for the whole 6 years I have had them without any problems at all. I have never seen any bulling at all.

 

[zaroba]

Hi everybody, Mike here, Weebles son
If I may add to this discussion and touch on several points made:

A. Yes, that is a red foot in the pic, she is 7 years old and was recently rescued. Forgot to ask what the previous owner fed her though.
B. There is a salcatta in there as well, she is 4 years old but smaller then the Red Foot. She was also a rescue, obtained 5 months ago from a lady who had only been feeding her Iceburg Lettuce. We weened her off that long ago and now she is eating a correct diet of collards and grass. Given the poor diet she was being fed in her younger years, I don't believe she will reach a normal adult size.
C. Although russians come from a dry arid climate, they live in burrows in the wild that have humidity levels over 75%. So I have to disagree with the statement that they only need 30-40% humidity. The russians are also male and female and we hope to breed them eventually. Notice that I said 'she' for the red foot and salc? They are both females as well. The enclosure has the 1 male and 3 females so no male vs male issues. We do have a male greek tortoise, but he does not live with the other torts due to showing aggression towards them. The 4 torts in the enclosure now do not show any type of dominance or aggression issues, they don't even pay each other any attention.

With an 8ft x 4ft enclosure, it is very easy to have varying levels of both temperature and humidity. Especially with the 2 inches of cocofiber as a bedding. Plus I should note that this isn't really a permanent enclosure and it is not completed yet (hence the lack of heating, uv, and decor). It is just their *indoor* enclosure that is used for winter time and cooler temps. Generally if its over 80 they go outside into a 16ft x 6ft pen, but if the night time low is below 70, they are brought inside.


Plus, if there is any bullying (or excessive breeding attempts by the male russian) that starts happening in the future, we are ready for that. The old indoor pen is 6.5x2.5ft and currently unoccupied. Its part of a custom built structure that has the pen on the bottom and up to twelve 20 gal long tanks on 3 shelves over it. It wont be going anywhere any time soon. Plus we still have an old 6x6ft outdoor pen ready for use if needed.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Mike:

Mixing species is a crap shoot, and one I'm not willing to take...especially with Russians being one of the species. Tortoises from different continents have evolved to live harmoniously with the pathogens inside their bodies. When you add a tortoise from a different continent, he has his own symbiotic pathogens and these can make other species of tortoise sick, or even dead. I'm just not willing to take that chance.

Please read the paper in this link which was written by a very well-known tortoise person:

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/mixing.htm

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Only one hide for all those tortoises??? Plus mixed pathogens... sickness... stress and bullying... you should house separately.

 

[leigti]

I know the idea of four separate enclosures is pretty daunting. I find it a little bit too when I plans to get a rescued Boxturtle and was trying to figure out how to how's it with my Russian. I finally gave in and realized it was not a good idea even though I had planned I'm just putting them together in the outdoor pen which is large. I solve that problem by dividing the outdoor pen and building a new indoor pen. It is best for the tortoises although it is a little bit of a pain it will be worth it in the and keep them healthy. It sounds like you have a lot of other options, different enclosures already made, so maybe divide this one and half use a couple of the other ones. And you can connect other parts to the outdoor enclosure to make it bigger and save space at the same time. Or defined it up as well. Good luck! It is very good that you are rescuing these tortoises but it is important that they have the right housing now to make their life better.

 

[zaroba]

Only one hide for all those tortoises??? Plus mixed pathogens... sickness... stress and bullying... you should house separately.

please note my response above, it isn't completed yet.
It till have more hides, lighting, decor, and I hope to add live plants as well. Especially come winter time when they will be living in it instead of being outside. Also planning on putting springtails or something else in the substrate to help naturally break down waste.


As for pathogens with cohabitation, that is kinda exaggerated. While many people do just toss in multiple reptiles and have bad things happen due to lack of experience, the opposite is also true. Yes, stress, bullying, and foreign pathogens are possible, cohabitation is possible and has been done successfully with proper care and experience. Foreign pathogen transmission would show itself pretty quickly, a tortoise would get sick. If the russians or salc had a pathogen, they would have shown it before being together for 6 months. The red foot has a vet visit this Friday, he's not actually living with the others yet for quarantine purposes (I'm surprised nobody mentioned quarantining when weeble said it was a new arrival), he was just in their for the picture. Plus, foreign pathogens are far more likely to be an issue with wild caught tortoises that have never been to the vet for a checkup, not older tortoises that were captive bred, been in captivity for years, or kept in clean conditions

The worry of pathogen transmission is kinda hypocritical anyway. How many take their tortoises outside for sun and fresh grass? What about all the pathogens the tortoises are exposed to while outside in a pen in a non-native environment? I don't know about you guys, but I have actually seen garter snakes visit my tortoise pen and who knows what else might visit? Lizards, Birds, Rodents, all possible pathogen carriers.

That is why vet visits are made and stool samples inspected, I have an exotic animal vet 15 mins away. Preventative measures are also good, keeping an enclosure clean for example, or natural foods that help prevent pathogens, such as pumpkin to help prevent worms.

 

[Tort mum]

You have done a great job off the encloser , but mixing is a problem , cause they all have diff needs and that , but I do love what you have done for them