Newish Tortoise Owner: Tons of Questions about Baby Leopard Tortoise, Freddy

[cmtortoise]

Hi there everyone,

I have been reading all your posts for the past two months and decided it was time I get an account. About 2-3 weeks ago I got my baby leopard tortoise, Freddy, from tortoisesupply.com….let me tell you, this lil dude is like having a newborn baby the amount I worry about him!

So pretty much ever since I got him, he closes his eyes a lot! Even when he’s walking around the enclosure he will have his eyes closed sometimes. However, when I take him outside in the natural sun to graze and exercise he opens them. Also, if I mist him down or bath him he opens them, not to mention hen baths/soaks for 10-15 min daily and I mist down his enclosure several times a day plus always making sure his hide is humid with damp moss.

Anyways, there isn’t any discharge or cuts and when he has them closed or open they look like normal baby tortoises when they have their eyes closed or open cause I looked up pictures online. But I don’t know what to do…is this normal?

By the way, this is his enclosure…it’s about 2.7 ft long and 1.5 ft wide and I’m using a Zoo med heat lamp which has UV/UVB. I have worked so hard and I am a college student so I don’t have tons of money but I finally saved up to buy a leopard and all the supplies after months of budgeting. I love the lil guy to death and I’m just worried he’s sick but he eats fine, has tons of energy, and isn’t scared of me in the slightest…it’s just the eye thing that’s making me all anxious. He’s like a Helen Keller tortoise sometimes actually alot of the time…Help!!!

 

[wellington]

He needs a closed chamber high humidity enclosure.
A tube florescent for uvb and a incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp day and night never lower then 80
Humidity 80%
Do not use any type of cfl coil bulbs
No mercury vapor bulbs
No halogen bulbs.
Fix a tent of plastic over the whole enclosure to help keep in heat and humidity.
The uvb needs to only be on 2-4 hours a day. Basking light on from morning to around 6-8 depending on what time he gets up and then goes to bed.
A ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat so it doesn't over heat the area during the day but will come on at night when the basking light is off.

 

[Tom]

Hi there everyone,

I have been reading all your posts for the past two months and decided it was time I get an account. About 2-3 weeks ago I got my baby leopard tortoise, Freddy, from tortoisesupply.com….let me tell you, this lil dude is like having a newborn baby the amount I worry about him!

So pretty much ever since I got him, he closes his eyes a lot! Even when he’s walking around the enclosure he will have his eyes closed sometimes. However, when I take him outside in the natural sun to graze and exercise he opens them. Also, if I mist him down or bath him he opens them, not to mention hen baths/soaks for 10-15 min daily and I mist down his enclosure several times a day plus always making sure his hide is humid with damp moss.

Anyways, there isn’t any discharge or cuts and when he has them closed or open they look like normal baby tortoises when they have their eyes closed or open cause I looked up pictures online. But I don’t know what to do…is this normal?

By the way, this is his enclosure…it’s about 2.7 ft long and 1.5 ft wide and I’m using a Zoo med heat lamp which has UV/UVB. I have worked so hard and I am a college student so I don’t have tons of money but I finally saved up to buy a leopard and all the supplies after months of budgeting. I love the lil guy to death and I’m just worried he’s sick but he eats fine, has tons of energy, and isn’t scared of me in the slightest…it’s just the eye thing that’s making me all anxious. He’s like a Helen Keller tortoise sometimes actually alot of the time…Help!!!

Hello and welcome.

You got the wrong type of bulb and you are lacking the other types of heating and lighting needed.

Moss should not be used with tortoises. They eat it and it will cause impaction.

Misting should not be needed in the right type of enclosure.

Read this and look for the heating lighting breakdown and the leopard tortoise care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

And hey! Where is the picture of the cute little baby???

 

[cmtortoise]

He needs a closed chamber high humidity enclosure.
A tube florescent for uvb and a incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp day and night never lower then 80
Humidity 80%
Do not use any type of cfl coil bulbs
No mercury vapor bulbs
No halogen bulbs.
Fix a tent of plastic over the whole enclosure to help keep in heat and humidity.
The uvb needs to only be on 2-4 hours a day. Basking light on from morning to around 6-8 depending on what time he gets up and then goes to bed.
A ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat so it doesn't over heat the area during the day but will come on at night when the basking light is off.

He needs a closed chamber high humidity enclosure.
A tube florescent for uvb and a incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp day and night never lower then 80
Humidity 80%
Do not use any type of cfl coil bulbs
No mercury vapor bulbs
No halogen bulbs.
Fix a tent of plastic over the whole enclosure to help keep in heat and humidity.
The uvb needs to only be on 2-4 hours a day. Basking light on from morning to around 6-8 depending on what time he gets up and then goes to bed.
A ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat so it doesn't over heat the area during the day but will come on at night when the basking light is off.

He needs a closed chamber high humidity enclosure.
A tube florescent for uvb and a incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp day and night never lower then 80
Humidity 80%
Do not use any type of cfl coil bulbs
No mercury vapor bulbs
No halogen bulbs.
Fix a tent of plastic over the whole enclosure to help keep in heat and humidity.
The uvb needs to only be on 2-4 hours a day. Basking light on from morning to around 6-8 depending on what time he gets up and then goes to bed.
A ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat so it doesn't over heat the area during the day but will come on at night when the basking light is off.

 

[cmtortoise]

l

He needs a closed chamber high humidity enclosure.
A tube florescent for uvb and a incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp day and night never lower then 80
Humidity 80%
Do not use any type of cfl coil bulbs
No mercury vapor bulbs
No halogen bulbs.
Fix a tent of plastic over the whole enclosure to help keep in heat and humidity.
The uvb needs to only be on 2-4 hours a day. Basking light on from morning to around 6-8 depending on what time he gets up and then goes to bed.
A ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat so it doesn't over heat the area during the day but will come on at night when the basking light is off.

He needs a closed chamber high humidity enclosure.
A tube florescent for uvb and a incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp day and night never lower then 80
Humidity 80%
Do not use any type of cfl coil bulbs
No mercury vapor bulbs
No halogen bulbs.
Fix a tent of plastic over the whole enclosure to help keep in heat and humidity.
The uvb needs to only be on 2-4 hours a day. Basking light on from morning to around 6-8 depending on what time he gets up and then goes to bed.
A ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat so it doesn't over heat the area during the day but will come on at night when the basking light is off.

okay, thanks for the response and great advice! I am confused about the bulbs… is the one I currently have a mercury vapor bulb? If not, is it an okay bulb for the little guy?

He needs a closed chamber high humidity enclosure.
A tube florescent for uvb and a incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter for night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp day and night never lower then 80
Humidity 80%
Do not use any type of cfl coil bulbs
No mercury vapor bulbs
No halogen bulbs.
Fix a tent of plastic over the whole enclosure to help keep in heat and humidity.
The uvb needs to only be on 2-4 hours a day. Basking light on from morning to around 6-8 depending on what time he gets up and then goes to bed.
A ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat so it doesn't over heat the area during the day but will come on at night when the basking light is off.

 

[wellington]

I don't know what bulbs you are using. The only bulb for uvb should be a tube florescent. The bulb for basking needs to be an incandescent flood bulb. Then ceramic heat emitter for night time heat and if added day heat is needed.
Mercury vapor bulbs should not be used
Spot bulbs should not be used
Cfl coil bulbs should not be used
Halogen bulbs should not be used.

 

[cmtortoise]

Hello and welcome.

You got the wrong type of bulb and you are lacking the other types of heating and lighting needed.

Moss should not be used with tortoises. They eat it and it will cause impaction.

Misting should not be needed in the right type of enclosure.

Read this and look for the heating lighting breakdown and the leopard tortoise care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

And hey! Where is the picture of the cute little baby???

Okay, the breeder (tortoise supply) told me to get this light. I don’t mind misting as it gives me more of an interactive experience with Freddie! And nearly every video and breeder i have talked to has recommended the sphagnum moss, Freddie hasn’t tried to eat it from what i have seen and it keep the humidity higher but if I see him/her trying to eat it then i will take it out! Here is my baby below! Also, wht substrate do you use and I am looking for a star tortoise (don’t worry it’ll be in a different enclosure) and was wondering if you or anyone seeing this has any ideas on where I should buy one from? I am still in college so I am trying to find a good, yet, most affordable breeder…and ideas??

 

[wellington]

Yeah most people/breeders don't understand the importance of not using stuff that can cause damage. If you wait until you start to see him eat it, it may be too late. If we know it can be dangerous, why rish your tortoises life?
Coconut coir with fine grade orchid bark on top is safe and holds humidity better. Misting is not enough. The substrate of damp coir on the bottom and orchid bark on top keeps humidity up in a proper closed chamber and last a long time. Misting dries too fast unless you are really misting a lot and that would take quite a while
If you are still in college, do you have the space to house tortoises outside when they get big enough? If not, then why not wait until you have an established home? A tiny box will not last long and they will need a much bigger space, much bigger.

 

[Tom]

Okay, the breeder (tortoise supply) told me to get this light.

Tyler and Sarah are terrific people and I love them both, but no two tortoise keepers will ever agree on everything. I don't agree with some of what they do. I think the way I recommend is better and yields better results.

I don’t mind misting as it gives me more of an interactive experience with Freddie!

You should not need to mist in the correct enclosure. Misting is ineffective for maintaining humidity, and the evaporative cooling it cause is NOT good for any tortoise.

And nearly every video and breeder i have talked to has recommended the sphagnum moss, Freddie hasn’t tried to eat it from what i have seen and it keep the humidity higher but if I see him/her trying to eat it then i will take it out!

If every video told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it? They are all parroting the same old wrong info from the same old wrong sources and they have not yet learned the hard way. We are trying to help you, so that you don't have to learn the hard way either. The choice is yours. After you see him eating the moss it is too late.

Also, what substrate do you use...

Orchid bark for leopards and stars. Cypress mulch is okay too, but orchid bark works best.

Please click on the link and read the info that I left for you in post number 3. It explains everything we are talking about here and it will help you.

and I am looking for a star tortoise (don’t worry it’ll be in a different enclosure) and was wondering if you or anyone seeing this has any ideas on where I should buy one from? I am still in college so I am trying to find a good, yet, most affordable breeder…and ideas??

Tortoise supply also sells Burmese stars. You will find the Burmese stars much better and much easier to maintain than Indian stars. If you like them and your experience with them, buy from them again. They are good people and deserve your business.

If you want a different source, I breed about 100 babies a year, and so does @Markw84 . I'm pretty sure there are several other good breeders here on this site producing them and starting them correctly. That is your biggest obstacle is finding a breeder that starts them correctly because most do not.

 

[cmacusa3]

I'd really suggest doing a lot more to correct things for this leopard and getting familiar with raising it before getting anything else, Plus like you said, that you can't afford things at the moment so why not spend the money to correct this and not on another tortoise and second enclosure. You think stressing over one is tough, It only gets worse when you first start out with multiple.

 

[cmtortoise]

Yeah most people/breeders don't understand the importance of not using stuff that can cause damage. If you wait until you start to see him eat it, it may be too late. If we know it can be dangerous, why rish your tortoises life?
Coconut coir with fine grade orchid bark on top is safe and holds humidity better. Misting is not enough. The substrate of damp coir on the bottom and orchid bark on top keeps humidity up in a proper closed chamber and last a long time. Misting dries too fast unless you are really misting a lot and that would take quite a while
If you are still in college, do you have the space to house tortoises outside when they get big enough? If not, then why not wait until you have an established home? A tiny box will not last long and they will need a much bigger space, much bigger.

I did all my research about the size and it’s not a “tiny“ box…it’s nearly 3 ft long and nearly 2 ft wide and for Christmas my father is making me a 6x4 indoor enclosure. I will 10000% be housing Freddie outside once he is of age. LOL how long do you think people are in college for…ill will be done in May which is why I got a baby. But if you want to encourage tortoise owners to ask questions and educate themselves then why be so passive aggressive over a turtle site…I was asking for advice and will make any adjustments necessary for any of my animals but honestly you dont have to be so abrupt because I may not have your experience or anyone else’s but I’m trying to learn and if you or all the passive aggressive people on this site want to encourage the younger generations then being more understanding that not everyone is of your experience level will encourage more people to ask questions instead of beginners being scared of ridicule, hence we can all learn what’s best for these amazing creatures and its not a one size fits all! That’s why I was so reluctant to get an account because I see the way people talk to each other and respond to newer owners as if they had never been in the same situation…keep in mind…you once had your first tortoise or whatever! I have raised turtles my whole life and could tell you anything about soft shells, sliders, musks, diamond backs…but I love when first timers ask me stuff and I never make them feel bad for simple questions as it shows you care about your animal.

 

[cmtortoise]

I'd really suggest doing a lot more to correct things for this leopard and getting familiar with raising it before getting anything else, Plus like you said, that you can't afford things at the moment so why not spend the money to correct this and not on another tortoise and second enclosure. You think stressing over one is tough, It only gets worse when you first start out with multiple.

You can also see my recent response I just sent to @wellington

 

[cmtortoise]

I'd really suggest doing a lot more to correct things for this leopard and getting familiar with raising it before getting anything else, Plus like you said, that you can't afford things at the moment so why not spend the money to correct this and not on another tortoise and second enclosure. You think stressing over one is tough, It only gets worse when you first start out with multiple.

Also, I have been researching more about this animal than studying hahah…everthing online and on this site is super contradicting so it’s hard to know who’s right or wrong. also, I am super excited to say I just accepted an offer in marine biology near Cape Sable FL so hopefully broke no more!

 

[wellington]

I did all my research about the size and it’s not a “tiny“ box…it’s nearly 3 ft long and nearly 2 ft wide and for Christmas my father is making me a 6x4 indoor enclosure. I will 10000% be housing Freddie outside once he is of age. LOL how long do you think people are in college for…ill will be done in May which is why I got a baby. But if you want to encourage tortoise owners to ask questions and educate themselves then why be so passive aggressive over a turtle site…I was asking for advice and will make any adjustments necessary for any of my animals but honestly you dont have to be so abrupt because I may not have your experience or anyone else’s but I’m trying to learn and if you or all the passive aggressive people on this site want to encourage the younger generations then being more understanding that not everyone is of your experience level will encourage more people to ask questions instead of beginners being scared of ridicule, hence we can all learn what’s best for these amazing creatures and its not a one size fits all! That’s why I was so reluctant to get an account because I see the way people talk to each other and respond to newer owners as if they had never been in the same situation…keep in mind…you once had your first tortoise or whatever! I have raised turtles my whole life and could tell you anything about soft shells, sliders, musks, diamond backs…but I love when first timers ask me stuff and I never make them feel bad for simple questions as it shows you care about your animal.

Read post 11 again. That's part of the reason for my response. The other because you are bucking against just about everything we are saying. If you want to do it right, stop thinking all the info out there is correct for one. Two, before you even have it right for the leopard you want to add another. Which Incase you didn't know, they can not be housed together.
2.7x1.5 is what you said the enclosure size was in your first post! Hmmm.
A lot of babies that are not started out right die. This is not what we want for any tortoise. Even in the best proper environment, some still don't make it. But, they at least have a better chance when it's done right. That's what we are trying to get you to do, set him up right, so he has the best chance possible.