Newbie - lighting suggestions

[HarleyK]

[size=large]Can someone give me a brief breakdown of what lights are necessary for russian, red foots, or leopard tortoises?

I go to some pet shops and they have sulcatas under flourescent aquarium lights. I understand they need a bulb for uva/uvb, a basking light, and a night light for heat.

How many clamp lights and bulbs am I looking at here? Or do all these bulbs serve the same purpose? Doing some research Thanks![/size]

 

[Yvonne G]

A tortoise requires the sun up/sun down routine. So the lights come on in the a.m. around 7a and go off in the evening around 7pm. With the exception of the redfoot, as they don't need the basking sun as much as the others you've mentioned.

I'll leave the RF out of the equation and refer to the others as "they" from here on. They need to be able to come out of their hide in the a.m. and sit under the light to warm up. So a UV light shining straight down into the habitat about 12" from the floor is good. You want it to be around 100+ degrees directly under the light. Room temperature on the opposite side of the habitat is ok. The only light I have experience with (because all my tortoises live outside) is the 100 watt T-Rex Active UV/heat.

If your house doesn't get any colder than 70 degrees at night, then you don't need a heat source at night.

For the RF, you might just use a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) instead of a light. I don't keep them, so really shouldn't give info out on them.

Best thing for tortoises is to live outside in natural conditions. If its at all possible, your tortoises should be outside for their mental well-being.

 

[tortoisenerd]

The 100 Watt T-Rex Active Heat (don't get the one without "active" in the title that is cheaper as it has less UVB output) or the 100 Watt Mega Ray are the best bulbs your money can buy. They are Mercury Vapor Bulbs (MVBs) and are heat/light/UVB all in one. If your temps get below 60/65 F at night, you'll need a CHE for at night when the MVB is off. If you don't use a MVB, you need a UVB light such as a strip light (which literally barely puts out anything compared to a MVB which is close to the UVB output of the sun, although they start to decay as soon as you start to use them), a heat source, and a light source on top of that.

Three bulbs to replace and three fixtures to buy, so although the bulbs are cheaper, in the long run the math works out in favor of the MVB setup (plus you save on the electric bill). I use a digital timer to keep the MVB on a 12 or 14 hour schedule. With a Russian you'd have the option to hibernate (Leopards and redfoots don't hibernate) but there is no reason you have to do that. I think the risks outweigh the benefits. For a Russian you choose not to hibernate, you just need to keep it warm enough through the winter (some people call it "over-wintering"). For those that keep outdoor torts and choose not to hibernate, they may bring them inside for the winter.

With the MVB set up you need a ceramic socket hood fixture (as deep and wide as you can get, like 10 inch diameter), a lamp stand to secure the fixture and move it up and down (bulb face must be parallel to the substrate), and an accurate thermometer such as a temp gun (the PE1 is $25). You won't find the T-Rex or Mega Ray in stores (at least none I've seen!). Maybe you'll find an inferior brand like the Powersun, and it'll be $70-$80 not $50 like online for the T-Rex & Mega Ray. MVBs need to be replaced every 12 months and tube UVBs every 6 months. Look at http://www.uvguide.co.uk/mercuryvapourlamps.htm for UVB output data and info.

Yes, outdoors is so much better! Even if its for part of the year, only supervised outings on weekends, etc...anything is better than nothing. You can provide a heated shed/doghouse type environment if you have temperature climate but not quite warm enough. There are many options. If you can get your tort outdoors a couple hours a day 5 days a week, you don't need UVB indoors.

Yes, only heat is appropriate for a redfoot. Desert torts make D3 from the UVB while redfoots make D3 from the small amount of protein in their diet. They don't bask and would like an enclosure more one temperature (about 80-85 F)--not too much variance but with one or two heat sources there will be some variance. Think rain forest floor for a redfoot vs. desert for a russian or leopard (although humidity is still important).

Let us know what else we can help with, and remember what a life-long commitment a tortoise is. I suggest months of research before venturing into it. Leopards and Redfoots both also get significantly bigger than Russians. Hermanns and Greeks are two other small breeds similar to Russians, although Russians are the easiest to find. Keep in mind pet store Russians are 99% wild caught (such as Petco). I personally don't want to support the import trade. Hatchlings are tough to keep alive as they are fragile. A captive bred tort over a year old is your best bet in my opinion.

 

[luck102573]

The 100 Watt T-Rex Active Heat (don't get the one without "active" in the title that is cheaper as it has less UVB output) or the 100 Watt Mega Ray are the best bulbs your money can buy. They are Mercury Vapor Bulbs (MVBs) and are heat/light/UVB all in one. If your temps get below 60/65 F at night, you'll need a CHE for at night when the MVB is off. If you don't use a MVB, you need a UVB light such as a strip light (which literally barely puts out anything compared to a MVB which is close to the UVB output of the sun, although they start to decay as soon as you start to use them), a heat source, and a light source on top of that.

Three bulbs to replace and three fixtures to buy, so although the bulbs are cheaper, in the long run the math works out in favor of the MVB setup (plus you save on the electric bill). I use a digital timer to keep the MVB on a 12 or 14 hour schedule. With a Russian you'd have the option to hibernate (Leopards and redfoots don't hibernate) but there is no reason you have to do that. I think the risks outweigh the benefits. For a Russian you choose not to hibernate, you just need to keep it warm enough through the winter (some people call it "over-wintering"). For those that keep outdoor torts and choose not to hibernate, they may bring them inside for the winter.

With the MVB set up you need a ceramic socket hood fixture (as deep and wide as you can get, like 10 inch diameter), a lamp stand to secure the fixture and move it up and down (bulb face must be parallel to the substrate), and an accurate thermometer such as a temp gun (the PE1 is $25). You won't find the T-Rex or Mega Ray in stores (at least none I've seen!). Maybe you'll find an inferior brand like the Powersun, and it'll be $70-$80 not $50 like online for the T-Rex & Mega Ray. MVBs need to be replaced every 12 months and tube UVBs every 6 months. Look at http://www.uvguide.co.uk/mercuryvapourlamps.htm for UVB output data and info.

Yes, outdoors is so much better! Even if its for part of the year, only supervised outings on weekends, etc...anything is better than nothing. You can provide a heated shed/doghouse type environment if you have temperature climate but not quite warm enough. There are many options. If you can get your tort outdoors a couple hours a day 5 days a week, you don't need UVB indoors.

Yes, only heat is appropriate for a redfoot. Desert torts make D3 from the UVB while redfoots make D3 from the small amount of protein in their diet. They don't bask and would like an enclosure more one temperature (about 80-85 F)--not too much variance but with one or two heat sources there will be some variance. Think rain forest floor for a redfoot vs. desert for a russian or leopard (although humidity is still important).

Let us know what else we can help with, and remember what a life-long commitment a tortoise is. I suggest months of research before venturing into it. Leopards and Redfoots both also get significantly bigger than Russians. Hermanns and Greeks are two other small breeds similar to Russians, although Russians are the easiest to find. Keep in mind pet store Russians are 99% wild caught (such as Petco). I personally don't want to support the import trade. Hatchlings are tough to keep alive as they are fragile. A captive bred tort over a year old is your best bet in my opinion.

Petco sells wild caught Tortoise's? I never knew that. Is that all their tortoise's or just the Russians? Nice to know though

 

[tortoisenerd]

I have never heard of a captive bred Russian at Petco. I have however seen Redfoots there that I think may have been captive bred but I didn't ask (I think they were juveniles, which surprised me as that wouldn't follow the 4 inch rule). They will lie about the Russians and say they are about 1 year old! The employees just follow the script that their managers tell them which comes from corporate, so many of them think they are giving good advice (they just try to sell the junk--I couldn't find much at Petco I'd consider using for my tort) and telling the truth but they aren't. Its sad that they try to get them just over 4 inches so they can fit more in a shipping crate and they arrive sick and dead. Its more recently I started to see Redfoots there. Not well taken care of either, but I haven't ever seen a pet store I was happy with.

 

[luck102573]

Thanks for the info. Don't know why that surprised me . I am sure you are you are right for I have seen this myself. I do know that there was a excellent Pet Care manager at Pet smart where we lived she actually had redfoots and would tell the people pretty much what is on the forum except she uses a uvb light. She never gave out the care sheets for the tortoises she would hand write for the people. She took all the reps to Doc Harrmon in DSM when they came in and most of the torts did have worms. I know they came from Sand fire. She was one in a million find working at a chain. Unfortunately she was fired. Imagine that someone who knows so much is replaced by someone who knows nothing very sad. So I agree with you 100%.

 

[HarleyK]

The 100 Watt T-Rex Active Heat (don't get the one without "active" in the title that is cheaper as it has less UVB output) or the 100 Watt Mega Ray are the best bulbs your money can buy. They are Mercury Vapor Bulbs (MVBs) and are heat/light/UVB all in one. If your temps get below 60/65 F at night, you'll need a CHE for at night when the MVB is off. If you don't use a MVB, you need a UVB light such as a strip light (which literally barely puts out anything compared to a MVB which is close to the UVB output of the sun, although they start to decay as soon as you start to use them), a heat source, and a light source on top of that.

Three bulbs to replace and three fixtures to buy, so although the bulbs are cheaper, in the long run the math works out in favor of the MVB setup (plus you save on the electric bill). I use a digital timer to keep the MVB on a 12 or 14 hour schedule. With a Russian you'd have the option to hibernate (Leopards and redfoots don't hibernate) but there is no reason you have to do that. I think the risks outweigh the benefits. For a Russian you choose not to hibernate, you just need to keep it warm enough through the winter (some people call it "over-wintering"). For those that keep outdoor torts and choose not to hibernate, they may bring them inside for the winter.

With the MVB set up you need a ceramic socket hood fixture (as deep and wide as you can get, like 10 inch diameter), a lamp stand to secure the fixture and move it up and down (bulb face must be parallel to the substrate), and an accurate thermometer such as a temp gun (the PE1 is $25). You won't find the T-Rex or Mega Ray in stores (at least none I've seen!). Maybe you'll find an inferior brand like the Powersun, and it'll be $70-$80 not $50 like online for the T-Rex & Mega Ray. MVBs need to be replaced every 12 months and tube UVBs every 6 months. Look at http://www.uvguide.co.uk/mercuryvapourlamps.htm for UVB output data and info.

Yes, outdoors is so much better! Even if its for part of the year, only supervised outings on weekends, etc...anything is better than nothing. You can provide a heated shed/doghouse type environment if you have temperature climate but not quite warm enough. There are many options. If you can get your tort outdoors a couple hours a day 5 days a week, you don't need UVB indoors.

Yes, only heat is appropriate for a redfoot. Desert torts make D3 from the UVB while redfoots make D3 from the small amount of protein in their diet. They don't bask and would like an enclosure more one temperature (about 80-85 F)--not too much variance but with one or two heat sources there will be some variance. Think rain forest floor for a redfoot vs. desert for a russian or leopard (although humidity is still important).

Let us know what else we can help with, and remember what a life-long commitment a tortoise is. I suggest months of research before venturing into it. Leopards and Redfoots both also get significantly bigger than Russians. Hermanns and Greeks are two other small breeds similar to Russians, although Russians are the easiest to find. Keep in mind pet store Russians are 99% wild caught (such as Petco). I personally don't want to support the import trade. Hatchlings are tough to keep alive as they are fragile. A captive bred tort over a year old is your best bet in my opinion.

Thanks very much for the info! That was very helpful. Haven't purchased a tort yet, but if I do, for a desert sp. I would buy:

1. ceramic heat emitter (used during the day + night)
2. a MVB bulb like you mentioned.

The MVB bulb is expensive, but I found it on Foster and Smith for $30!!! Another question I have is UVA. How important is having UVA? I understand that during the day the windows will be open and indirect sunlight would enter the room. Plus, I have a 4 x 3 outdoor pen I can leave the tort in for a couple of hours max. Is using a UVA bulb absolutely necessary? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Madkins007]

Red-foots have similar lighting needs to the others you mentioned. Some people claim otherwise, since they are supposed to be a 'rain forest' species, but they are not- they are found in open savannah, scrub forest, etc. (and, yes, sometimes in the rain forest.) They bask and generally act much like the other species listed. (YELLOW-foots and some Hinge-backs, among others, are true forest tortoises.)

BABY tortoises, especially Red-foots, do not like a lot of light, and it is really easy to overdo the light on any species.

Red-foots do not seem to need UVB lighting, but many experts believe they benefit from it anyway and many successful breeders use UVB for them just like for other species. The thing about UVB/D3 is that NO ONE know how much ANY tortoise species really needs.

(If needed, I can provide documentation for any of these points.)