New Sulc!

[ahc1272]

Hi guys! I just got a sulcata baby, my first tortoise!
I will let him outdoors when he is bigger, but where I am (Korea) late fall and winter is cold.
I came across this website and joined right away! I've been reading up a lot on diet but I would like to ask a few questions *mainly about diet.
Please understand, I've heard so many people say so many different things, so forgive me if I sound ignorant; I just want to be sure.

I will say this: I am willing to do countless hours of research and invest LOTS of time and as much money as I can to make my tort happy
I know I can't let him roam free in fields, but I'll do everything to make it work!

1. Is Romaine Lettuce ok to enter as a regular part of the sulcs diet?
How about red lettuce? Some say it's fine, some say absolutely not, even breeders told me their younger ones are fed on it (a lot)..... so I'm totally lost on this one. Btw, my tort is eating romaine right now!
Will a diet on it lead to pyramiding?

2. Are leeks ok to give to sulcs?

3. How about carrots?

4. Does "wheat grass" count as a grass? And is it ok for sulcs? I have heard that it is better to stay away from plants of grains, but I'm not so sure. If this is ok, I wouldn't mind growing it as a staple diet!

5. I've decided to go with Zoomed's Grassland for my tort's varied diet. (over mazuri?) Any objections?

6. Any sites where I can get good grass or hay for my tort? I can have it shipped to my california home and then have it brought here, no prob.

Thank you in advance!
AC

 

[Candy]

Hi AC and welcome to the forum. I'm not going to give you any information on your Sulcata, I'm going to wait until some of the experts come in and do that. I just wanted to say that my son just came back from visiting South Korea and how much he enjoyed your country. He says it is beautiful there. Well just wanted to welcome you.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Welcome to the group! For hatchlings, most owners can't get their Sulcatas to eat hays, grasses, weeds, etc yet (which is the ideal diet). So, they tend to feed dark leafy greens like spring mix (a lettuce mix which may include greens like romaine, oak, arugula, frisee, radicchio, etc). Leeks and carrots are poor choices. You can get a soft hay (Carolina Pet Supply has "salad style" hay, and later on you can get timothy hay) and moisten it and start to mix a little into the lettuces to get the tort to eat it over time. As much as you an grow yourself chemical-free, such as weeds and greens and grasses, the better. Sprinkle a pure calcium powder over the food daily.

Your tort needs to get outside for sunlight a couple hours a day most days of the week (if its warm enough), or else you will need to get a good UVB bulb like a Mercury Vapor Bulb (the T-Rex Active UV Heat and Mega Ray, 100 Watt, are the best). For a MVB you need a ceramic socket hood fixture and a lamp stand too. A temp gun is the best way to measure temps, as you will aim for a range available from 75 to 95 F in the enclosure.

How big of a yard do you have?

Wheatgrass (if your tort likes it) can be a part of the diet, but in my opinion no food should really be more than 5% of the diet...think variety. Grassland and Mazuri are about on the same level in my opinion. Grassland might have slightly superior ingredients (Mazuri uses Molasses), but it is more expensive. I wouldn't feed either for much of the diet as they aren't perfect. The more natural the diet the better. I do think for variety and so you have the tort accustomed to the food in case of an emergency its fine to use. Other grasses are fine too. Just don't use any chemicals, fertilizers, pesticides, etc. Try to buy all the greens from the store as organic. Small torts especially can be sensitive to chemicals, especially since 100% of their diet is the produce.

Some good treat foods are cactus pads, butternut squash, pumpkin, edible flowers like hibiscus/roses/pansies, and the Mazuri or Grassland. I try to do 55% lettuces or so, 40% other greens that tend to be higher in oxalic acid (dandelion, mustard, collard, radish, greens & watercress), and 5% treats.

So, while it is important to get your tort eating the healthy stuff like the hay, grass, and weeds from an early age, don't be at all surprised if they won't eat it. Just try to mix a little in and as they get older they will get a taste for it, so over time you can increase the amount. The softer the hay the better. You will have to chop it up for a hatchling or else they will choke down the whole strand, and that is dangerous.

---

Oh, and the major thing to prevent pyramiding is humidity. Have a moist (but not wet) substrate. Ensure that you can maintain appropriate temps though, because as you add humidity it will become cooler. What are you currently using for substrate? Many can be moistened, such as coconut coir, organic potting soil, or cypress mulch. Unless the diet is very very poor (such as feeding high protein), that has not been found to be too much of a factor. Exercise is also important (provide a large space for them to roam).

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi AC:

Welcome to the forum!!

 

[DeanS]

Welcome to the Forum! Wheat grass is an excellent choice. As greens go, try endive and escarole. Romaine is OK, but I personally NEVER feed lettuce...EVER! I favor Zoo Med over Mazuri, but Mazuri will help accelerate growth (if that's what you're after). As Kate mentions above, Carolina Pet Supply is an excellent source in the states...they have everything and their feedback is XLNT! Carrots are OK...in moderation (shredded for hatchlings...and very little)...no more than once a week. You'll also want to find a source for opuntia cactus (prickly pear)...started all my babies from the start and they never get tired of it. Good luck!

 

[firework]

I think Korea is too cold in winter. When he is an adult, how do you plan to keep it through the winter? This is something to think about, but you still have a couple of years before that becomes a problem.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.
1. Romaine and Red leaf lettuce are fine as part of a varied diet. Safe grasses and weeds are better.
2. Yes, in small amounts, mixed in with other stuff, once in a while.
3. Not so much, but a little bit once in a while, mixed in with other stuff is fine.
4. Wheat grass is fine. Home grown food is best.
5. They are both decent diet supplements and I recommend both. Why not get some of each and alternate them. Both of these need to be moistened and mixed in with other greens.
6. I like Bermuda grass hay, but this is only for bigger sulcatas. It can be found at any feed store that sells horse stuff.

One thing that has not been mentioned yet is humidity and temps for your new baby. Your diet questions demonstrate your level of commitment very well, so I'm sure you'll be asking enclosure questions soon too. Most of the info out there is outdated and conflicting, so I'm glad you found our community. When someone tells you how it "must be done" ask to see the smooth healthy babies that were raised under their method. I like to keep them warm, 75-80 round the clock, with a basking spot of about 100 for 12-14 hours a day. Baby tortoises NEED moisture, humidity and hydration. I recommend a humid substrate (cypress mulch, coco coir, plain soil, sphagnum moss, orchid bark), a humid hide box, daily warm water soaks and several shell sprayings a day. It is important to NOT let them get chilled under these conditions, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that you will raise a smooth baby if you do these things.

Also, direct sunshine and outside time are important. I keep down to about an hour or so for babies and do it in a safe enclosure under supervision. Here are some simple ideas for that.
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-14680.html?highlight=enclosure

 

[spikethebest]

Welcome to the forum!!

 

[ahc1272]

Hi everyone! Thank you so much for the warm welcome
Yes, Korea can be a great place, people are nice, good food, lots of technology!

My "yard" is a roof with a small garden on it... It's about let's let's see: 30 ft x 30 ft or so? I plan to grow patches of grass and weeds in the summer starting next year!

Yes, I know: Korean winters are harsh -_- He'll have to do on grass grown indoors and romaine and hay! When he's bigger, I'll make him his own shed upstairs that's heated.

About the shell, if he's alert and doing well, and it's not to the point of deforming, I'll live with it! How smooth is smooth? Does anyone have some pictures?? I've seen deformed monstrosities, but I'm wondering what is acceptable and what is not?

Does it really matter? I mean I've seen some tortoises with mild pyramiding and it was still a magnificent creature!!

Enclosures: Right now, it's really hot in Korea about 80ish degrees! I'm afraid of cooking him, so there's no basking light. I take him upstairs for 1 hour - 2 hours and make a shade for him so he has the option of not getting beat by the sun. He's in a large sweater box with a newspaper as a substrate~ I'm really worried he's going to ingest dirt or anything else.
I am soaking him daily, and trying to get his shell wet (I don't know why I'm doing that) but I figure it can't hurt!

He's acting ok, but sometimes, he sleeps during the day or doesn't move too much? But he eats plenty, I think! That never happened with the chameleons I had (sleeping in the day)

My last question for this reply is about leeks?
So we want optimally : high in fiber and low in protein. Grassy... To my eyes, leeks look as grassy as one can get in the super market!! What's the problem with them??
How about green onions? How about radish sprouts?

Thank you for your opinion on cactus pads I found a site: tortoisesupply.... They also have alfalfa cubes on sale!

Thanks for your replies!!
AC

 

[DeanS]

Hello and welcome.
1. Romaine and Red leaf lettuce are fine as part of a varied diet. Safe grasses and weeds are better.
2. Yes, in small amounts, mixed in with other stuff, once in a while.
3. Not so much, but a little bit once in a while, mixed in with other stuff is fine.
4. Wheat grass is fine. Home grown food is best.
5. They are both decent diet supplements and I recommend both. Why not get some of each and alternate them. Both of these need to be moistened and mixed in with other greens.
6. I like Bermuda grass hay, but this is only for bigger sulcatas. It can be found at any feed store that sells horse stuff.

One thing that has not been mentioned yet is humidity and temps for your new baby. Your diet questions demonstrate your level of commitment very well, so I'm sure you'll be asking enclosure questions soon too. Most of the info out there is outdated and conflicting, so I'm glad you found our community. When someone tells you how it "must be done" ask to see the smooth healthy babies that were raised under their method. I like to keep them warm, 75-80 round the clock, with a basking spot of about 100 for 12-14 hours a day. Baby tortoises NEED moisture, humidity and hydration. I recommend a humid substrate (cypress mulch, coco coir, plain soil, sphagnum moss, orchid bark), a humid hide box, daily warm water soaks and several shell sprayings a day. It is important to NOT let them get chilled under these conditions, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that you will raise a smooth baby if you do these things.

Also, direct sunshine and outside time are important. I keep down to about an hour or so for babies and do it in a safe enclosure under supervision. Here are some simple ideas for that.
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-14680.html?highlight=enclosure

I knew Tom would not fail

 

[ahc1272]

Hi again! Quick "news flash"... I was browsing and racking my brains on how to get cactus pads when I suddenly realized: Cheju Island must have it!
and look what I found!

http://jejueco.com/bbs/view.php?id=...on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=6

I go there a few times a year to dive, but now I have a good excuse to go more often!! I will check of course about pesticides and such!


Very pleased with this
AC

 

[firework]

I think leek is sort of spicy, don't know if that's okay to torts. I myself can not chew raw leeks, stings my tongue. Nutrition wise, I don't know.

Raising a full-grown sulcata indoor is at least not easy if realistic at all. Unless you have someone help you, I doubt it will work. Maybe you should try hibernate him in a fridge (a huge one).

BTW, I think raising a sulcata at your California home makes a lot more sense.

Hi everyone! Thank you so much for the warm welcome
Yes, Korea can be a great place, people are nice, good food, lots of technology!

My "yard" is a roof with a small garden on it... It's about let's let's see: 30 ft x 30 ft or so? I plan to grow patches of grass and weeds in the summer starting next year!

Yes, I know: Korean winters are harsh -_- He'll have to do on grass grown indoors and romaine and hay! When he's bigger, I'll make him his own shed upstairs that's heated.

About the shell, if he's alert and doing well, and it's not to the point of deforming, I'll live with it! How smooth is smooth? Does anyone have some pictures?? I've seen deformed monstrosities, but I'm wondering what is acceptable and what is not?

Does it really matter? I mean I've seen some tortoises with mild pyramiding and it was still a magnificent creature!!

Enclosures: Right now, it's really hot in Korea about 80ish degrees! I'm afraid of cooking him, so there's no basking light. I take him upstairs for 1 hour - 2 hours and make a shade for him so he has the option of not getting beat by the sun. He's in a large sweater box with a newspaper as a substrate~ I'm really worried he's going to ingest dirt or anything else.
I am soaking him daily, and trying to get his shell wet (I don't know why I'm doing that) but I figure it can't hurt!

He's acting ok, but sometimes, he sleeps during the day or doesn't move too much? But he eats plenty, I think! That never happened with the chameleons I had (sleeping in the day)

My last question for this reply is about leeks?
So we want optimally : high in fiber and low in protein. Grassy... To my eyes, leeks look as grassy as one can get in the super market!! What's the problem with them??
How about green onions? How about radish sprouts?

Thank you for your opinion on cactus pads I found a site: tortoisesupply.... They also have alfalfa cubes on sale!

Thanks for your replies!!
AC