New member here! Tortoise species identification/gender question

[Leerayy12]

Hi everyone! I’m new here and recently rescued a baby tortoise. I think it’s a desert tortoise? I haven’t had that much time to read through all of these amazing posts yet. Could someone tell me if this is indeed a desert tortoise and what sex it is? Thank you!

I also have an outdoor habitat question too. Is it really necessary to add a bottom area to the habitat to prevent digging? My sides of the habitat are oblique and are dug 6 inches down as recommended by a tortoise rescue. group.

 

[Leerayy12]

 

[Tom]

You do indeed have a desert tortoise. There is no way to tell the sex at that size. It has to get much larger before you will know.

It looks very dehydrated. babies should be getting daily soaks.

Moss will be eaten and it can cause impaction. You need to remove that right away.

Outdoors all day is bad for babies. They should be mostly indoors in a large closed chamber with stable "weather" conditions.

Most of the care info you find will be old out-dated, and completely wrong. Here is the correct care info. Read through this at least twice, and same for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom. Questions are welcome!

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Leerayy12]

Hi Tom,

Thank you so much for the info. I have read it all, twice. I will remove the moss in the morning, I thought it was okay :/ I have the tortoise in a 10 gallon tank because my plan was to keep it outdoors since I live in AZ and that’s where I found it before a roadrunner tried to get to it. It’s been soaking in a little water dish daily but the water hasn’t been warm. It somehow managed to flip onto its back in the water dish yesterday and luckily I was home to flip it over. I also have been trying to feed it for the last week and haven’t really had much success. I just bought some pellets to try so it doesn’t starve. I already started building an outside enclosure that was recommended by the rescue groups in AZ. I’m honestly distraught right now because I never intended on keeping it indoors. I have a 60 gallon tank that I could use that was previously used for a bearded dragon with old lights that haven’t been used in years. I know this question is stupid but do I really need to buy multiple lights? I can take it outside in its habitat I created safely for UV an hour a few times a week. I just didn’t plan on 1. Keeping it indoors and 2. Spending a lot more money than I already have on lighting/ aquarium materials. Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated because I don’t want it to die and I’ve been trying my best to save it.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I suggest you find a tortoise rescue as they are covered by all kinda federal laws..Find a rescue specific to Gopherus agassizii...that is the very best thing you can do for that baby. When they hatch they live underground in the nest for the next year, the humidity is necessary for correct growth. We know so much more now than we knew years ago. If you keep that baby the way you were going to...it will die. I appreciate that you want to have the fun of keeping a tortoise but unless you set it up correctly... Also...please do not call the dept of fish and game as they will euthanize it because you have handled it.
Have you talked to a specific Gopherus rescue?

 

[MaNaAk]

View attachment 368891

😍😍😍😍

 

[wellington]

I agree with Maggie3fan. If you can't do it right find the rescue for it.

 

[Leerayy12]

I haven’t reached out to a rescue yet because I planned on keeping it in the yard that it’s been in and trying to do right by it, that’s why I’m on here, to learn. I had no idea that what I was doing was wrong because all of the rescues for desert tortoises for my state that I live in say to do an outdoor enclosure.

I suggest you find a tortoise rescue as they are covered by all kinda federal laws..Find a rescue specific to Gopherus agassizii...that is the very best thing you can do for that baby. When they hatch they live underground in the nest for the next year, the humidity is necessary for correct growth. We know so much more now than we knew years ago. If you keep that baby the way you were going to...it will die. I appreciate that you want to have the fun of keeping a tortoise but unless you set it up correctly... Also...please do not call the dept of fish and game as they will euthanize it because you have handled it.
Have you talked to a specific Gopherus rescue?

 

[Leerayy12]

I agree with Maggie3fan. If you can't do it right find the rescue for it.

I would like do it right, that’s why I’m on here to get advice. I just am trying to figure this all out at the moment which is pretty overwhelming since what I thought was right, was wrong. I’ve saved hermit crabs and they live in a humid environment but I’m just not sure what to do with the turtle when it comes to setting up its habitat the right way. I have a 60 gallon tank but the roof is not one for humidity so I’d have to change that and get some lights for it.

 

[SinLA]

I haven’t reached out to a rescue yet because I planned on keeping it in the yard that it’s been in and trying to do right by it, that’s why I’m on here, to learn. I had no idea that what I was doing was wrong because all of the rescues for desert tortoises for my state that I live in say to do an outdoor enclosure.

Indeed, they “can” live in an outdoor enclosure, but for babies it’s very risky.

It’s best chance of survival would be if you can get a plastic bin, like a storage bin or better, yet one of those that is designed to hold wrapping papers, and convert that into an enclosed chamber until it’s big enough to survive outside on its own more healthily.

Search this for you’ll find lots of good examples of pictures and advice

 

[wellington]

I haven’t reached out to a rescue yet because I planned on keeping it in the yard that it’s been in and trying to do right by it, that’s why I’m on here, to learn. I had no idea that what I was doing was wrong because all of the rescues for desert tortoises for my state that I live in say to do an outdoor enclosure.

That's likely because they don't want or can't
put the time and money in to do it right.
They don't get it that in the wild, the tortoises know what to do and can find what they need. In our small captive spaces, they can't, they don't have endless room to roam until they find what they need.

 

[wellington]

I would like do it right, that’s why I’m on here to get advice. I just am trying to figure this all out at the moment which is pretty overwhelming since what I thought was right, was wrong. I’ve saved hermit crabs and they live in a humid environment but I’m just not sure what to do with the turtle when it comes to setting up its habitat the right way. I have a 60 gallon tank but the roof is not one for humidity so I’d have to change that and get some lights for it.

But a pop up green house and either make an enclosure out of it, or fix it over the 60 gallon. They are pretty cheap to buy. See pic.

 

[wellington]

Indeed, they “can” live in an outdoor enclosure, but for babies it’s very risky.

It’s best chance of survival would be if you can get a plastic bin, like a storage bin or better, yet one of those that is designed to hold wrapping papers, and convert that into an enclosed chamber until it’s big enough to survive outside on its own more healthily.

Search this for you’ll find lots of good examples of pictures and advice

What's the kind that holds wrapping paper? The one I have that holds paper is way too low sided. Also doesn't hold much. I never seen what you mentioned unless I didn't know that's what it was for.

 

[Leerayy12]

Indeed, they “can” live in an outdoor enclosure, but for babies it’s very risky.

It’s best chance of survival would be if you can get a plastic bin, like a storage bin or better, yet one of those that is designed to hold wrapping papers, and convert that into an enclosed chamber until it’s big enough to survive outside on its own more healthily.

Search this for you’ll find lots of good examples of pictures and advice

Indeed, they “can” live in an outdoor enclosure, but for babies it’s very risky.

It’s best chance of survival would be if you can get a plastic bin, like a storage bin or better, yet one of those that is designed to hold wrapping papers, and convert that into an enclosed chamber until it’s big enough to survive outside on its own more healthily.

Search this for you’ll find lots of good examples of pictures and advice

Would a 60 gallon tank that I already have work? I thought it needs lights and whatnot? Or do you have an example of what you’re talking about?

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,

Thank you so much for the info. I have read it all, twice. I will remove the moss in the morning, I thought it was okay :/ I have the tortoise in a 10 gallon tank because my plan was to keep it outdoors since I live in AZ and that’s where I found it before a roadrunner tried to get to it. It’s been soaking in a little water dish daily but the water hasn’t been warm. It somehow managed to flip onto its back in the water dish yesterday and luckily I was home to flip it over. I also have been trying to feed it for the last week and haven’t really had much success. I just bought some pellets to try so it doesn’t starve. I already started building an outside enclosure that was recommended by the rescue groups in AZ. I’m honestly distraught right now because I never intended on keeping it indoors. I have a 60 gallon tank that I could use that was previously used for a bearded dragon with old lights that haven’t been used in years. I know this question is stupid but do I really need to buy multiple lights? I can take it outside in its habitat I created safely for UV an hour a few times a week. I just didn’t plan on 1. Keeping it indoors and 2. Spending a lot more money than I already have on lighting/ aquarium materials. Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated because I don’t want it to die and I’ve been trying my best to save it.

Your 60 gallon tank should be fine for a while. Put some damp orchid bark or hand packed coco coir substrate in there, two terra cotta saucers sunk into the substrate for food and water, and a humid hide, and you are good to go.

Outdoors all day is bad for babies. I've tried this in side-by-side experiments with clutch mates of several species, including this one, over many years to test this theory. Little babies do MUCH better when kept mostly indoors. These rescue groups and state biologist care sheets give advice that is likely to result in their death in one of many ways, dehydration being the most likely. Outdoors all day, with the right set up, is GREAT for adults and large juveniles. It just needs some TLC while it is a baby. Most babies in the wild do not survive. Most babies housed outdoors the way they recommend don't survive, and the the few that do are stunted, pyramided, and permanently disfigured.

It is not eating because it is slowly dying due to stress, dehydration, and the wrong heating and lighting. Get it set up and lit correctly, following the temperate species care sheet, and the appetite should come around in a day or two. Soak in warm water for 40-60 minutes every day, and keep the water warm for the whole soak.

It is legal to keep them. You are supposed to get a license for them which is cheap and easy, but you can worry about that later if it survives and starts growing well. They aren't going to come banging down your door. The reps of the government agencies doing the licenses have unanimously told me not to worry about licensing babies because "most of them don't survive". They don't survive because people follow the advice given by these same government agencies, and other people who learned their bad advice from sources like that. I have received dozens of dried up nearly dead babies over the years, and only one died because it was too far gone when it came to me. When started correctly after hatching, 100% of them survive and thrive. Its just really hard to find the right info to start them correctly, unless you come HERE to TFO, which you have now done. All that is left is to make the set up and temperatures correct, hydrate it, and hope you found this little one in time to save it.

 

[SinLA]

What's the kind that holds wrapping paper? The one I have that holds paper is way too low sided. Also doesn't hold much. I never seen what you mentioned unless I didn't know that's what it was for.

Hmm no we may be talking about the same thing, it is low sided, but I was thinking as a "temporary" enclosed space, not long term. Since it already has a lid, it would just be a matter of cutting necessary holes:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXN5DTLD/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q38H2J4/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[wellington]

Hmm no we may be talking about the same thing, it is low sided, but I was thinking as a "temporary" enclosed space, not long term. Since it already has a lid, it would just be a matter of cutting necessary holes:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXN5DTLD/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q38H2J4/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Mine is similar but they are too low sided to not burn the heck out of the tort. Unless they use thermostats on everything, they will never get the temps low enough.

 

[JoJosMom]

@Leerayy12 If you do not do something drastically like now, you are going to kill this baby. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are not rescuing it if he/she dies, you are making it suffer. Hatchlings are very critical to care for.

We here at our rescue, have a hatchling desert tortoise. It is kept at 85 degrees, lives in a humid closed chamber tote, is soaked daily in warm water and placed near the southern facing window during the day to stay warm. It does go outside for no more than an hour for UVB. It's substrate is moistened hand pressed coco coir (we found is the best) and has a hiding place to go into when desired. It eats Mizuri with greens and is thriving! It is monitored all day long because it will flip itself over at any given time. I am a mother of 2 and it's care is pretty close to raising a baby without the diaper changes! Although you must watch for it to poopoo! Reasons for the confirmation that it is hydrated and processing its food properly and so that it does not get impaction.

I am sorry to be so blunt, I say this not to offend you but to state the reality. Although you may have had the best intentions to help this baby, you are actually killing it. Unless you pay attention and make the necessary changes immediately, you WILL kill this baby.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I would like do it right, that’s why I’m on here to get advice. I just am trying to figure this all out at the moment which is pretty overwhelming since what I thought was right, was wrong. I’ve saved hermit crabs and they live in a humid environment but I’m just not sure what to do with the turtle when it comes to setting up its habitat the right way. I have a 60 gallon tank but the roof is not one for humidity so I’d have to change that and get some lights for it.

I apologize...I got the impression you weren't that interested.
Do those rescue's know it's a hatchling? I have been to several rescue's in Arizona, species specific, as they are my most favorite tortoise and they were totally set up beautifully, for adults, not hatchling. The Arizona-Sonora rescue, (wrong word) anyway I have been there just east of Mesa is a beautiful place...I admit it has been a few years so I might be wrong now.
I do believe you can use that 60 gallon, use fine grade orchid bark or Reptibark put 6 inches in or so, get all the rest of the stuff suggested and then you can cover the top with aluminum foil to hold in the humidity...you never saw a happier tortoise then AB when he see's dandelions...
I keep Sulcata now, but there are 3 of my most favorite tortoise photos, such a happy tortoise

 

[SinLA]

Mine is similar but they are too low sided to not burn the heck out of the tort. Unless they use thermostats on everything, they will never get the temps low enough.

Ok good to know!