New Desert Torts 🥰

[Petey G]

Hi all, I live in Palm Springs, CA and recently adopted 2 sisters, 5-6 yo (The Cantaloupe Sisters). Re-homed actually from The Living Desert in Palm Desert. They have a large, secure outdoor area with a couple of burrows, ample shade and sun, a small shallow pool that is refilled daily with the irrigation, and a 2x6’ strip of irrigated Bermuda sod (leeched of fertilizers, etc.).

They appear content and like to be hand fed but seem to like the sweet stuff (grapes and melon, but also Romaine lettuce and cabbage). They forage for dry stuff and munch on random thinks in their habitat and I have planted recommended plants from the nursery. There are mature cacti, aloe, weeds, grasses, etc., in their habitat.

My question is that I leave for much of the summer, back every few weeks. I can have friends, neighbors check on them, but how can I make sure that they are getting what they need nutritionally if I’m not around too much to manage?

Thank you in advance! Loving these girls!!

 

[Yvonne G]

Before I address your concern I have a couple comments before I forget them:

Tortoises don't do well in pairs. Tortoises are solitary animals, neither wanting nor needing the company of another tortoise. When they get a little bigger and start getting sexually mature you will have a dominant and a subordinant. The dominant will continually tell the sub. to get out of his territory, and because he's locked in, and can't get out it causes stress for both of them. Most of the time YOU won't see this interaction. It's quite subtle.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that you have a male and a female. Take a look at their gulars (the part of the lower shell just under their chin). See how the configuration between the two is different? That's a gender difference.

Now, about leaving them on their own for several days. Normally I'd say it's probably ok, but since there are two of them in the same yard, you're taking a big chance they won't fight and one gets tipped over in the sun. If you make their yard into two with each tortoise being alone, it would more than likely be ok as long as you can have a neighbor look in on them daily.

 

[TammyJ]

Totally agree with everything Yvonne said, especially that one is a male for sure. Please do separate them.

 

[Petey G]

Before I address your concern I have a couple comments before I forget them:

Tortoises don't do well in pairs. Tortoises are solitary animals, neither wanting nor needing the company of another tortoise. When they get a little bigger and start getting sexually mature you will have a dominant and a subordinant. The dominant will continually tell the sub. to get out of his territory, and because he's locked in, and can't get out it causes stress for both of them. Most of the time YOU won't see this interaction. It's quite subtle.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that you have a male and a female. Take a look at their gulars (the part of the lower shell just under their chin). See how the configuration between the two is different? That's a gender difference.

Now, about leaving them on their own for several days. Normally I'd say it's probably ok, but since there are two of them in the same yard, you're taking a big chance they won't fight and one gets tipped over in the sun. If you make their yard into two with each tortoise being alone, it would more than likely be ok as long as you can have a neighbor look in on them daily.

Hi Yvonne, thanks for your help. These girls grew up together at the Living Desert so have always been together. It is illegal to breed them here in the Coachella Valley (maybe anywhere in California 🤷🏽‍♂️) and the Living Desert folks spent 7 hours at drop off reviewing the space that I have for them. They were part of a school visitation program together and spent the winter in the same box so appear quite comfortable with each other. All of that being said, I will be with them for a few solid months getting them acclimated so thank you for raising any additional concerns.

It‘s mainly the food/feeding/foraging…I want to make sure that they have whatever they need in nature to deal with my absences…and the lack of an occasional blueberry.

So the daily check is primarily to make sure that they haven’t been flipped on their backs? I haven’t seen this happen to them so far. As far as food, they’re ok just to eat whatever is around their habitat?

 

[Tom]

Hi Yvonne, thanks for your help. These girls grew up together at the Living Desert so have always been together. It is illegal to breed them here in the Coachella Valley (maybe anywhere in California 🤷🏽‍♂️) and the Living Desert folks spent 7 hours at drop off reviewing the space that I have for them. They were part of a school visitation program together and spent the winter in the same box so appear quite comfortable with each other. All of that being said, I will be with them for a few solid months getting them acclimated so thank you for raising any additional concerns.

It‘s mainly the food/feeding/foraging…I want to make sure that they have whatever they need in nature to deal with my absences…and the lack of an occasional blueberry.

So the daily check is primarily to make sure that they haven’t been flipped on their backs? I haven’t seen this happen to them so far. As far as food, they’re ok just to eat whatever is around their habitat?

The living desert, like almost every source of info for this species, is all wrong. They learned from the same wrong sources as everyone else, and now teach the wrong info to new people who believe them to be credible. They will quote biologists and state agencies, and it is all wrong wrong wrong. I say this based on decades of doing it all wrong their way, and then figuring out what was right and why it was right, and then doing it right, with MANY species for another decade and a half. I'm happy to explain more if you want me to. Its a long story. Yvonne has more DT experience over more years than most people on this earth. She knows her stuff.

1. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. They should not have grown up together, and they shouldn't be together right now. Groups of juveniles can sometimes work, but not pairs. They do just fine as the sole kings and queens of their own realms.
2. At least one of those is a male. This fact alone should alert you to how little the people you got them from know. When two males are housed together, it will often suppress the appearance of the secondary sexual characteristics of the subordinate one. I've seen this with several species, including DTs. They might both be male. The one in the right hand of the person in the picture is a male. You can tell by the gular scutes and the chin glands that are already obvious in this young tortoise.
3. This species should never be fed fruit. Do they like it? Yes. I like ice cream, but that doesn't make it "good" for me. The sugars in fruits wreak havoc with their GI tracts. They will survive being fed fruit in most cases, but it is not what they should be eating. Grasses, weeds, leaves and flowers of the right types. One of their natural foods in the wild is opuntia cactus. You should plant lots of the different spineless varieties, and feed them the pads a couple few times per week. Just give them whole pads. Don't cut it into chunks, as they can choke on irregularly shaped chunks. They can't choke on their own "bite sized" pieces.
4. If they didn't teach you about hydration, you need to know to keep them hydrated. Dehydration is the number one kiler of this species, followed closely by dog maulings. You should soak them every day for a couple of weeks, and then taper down to every other day over the hot dry summers. Sprinklers and misters are great for them in your scorching summers, and their underground retreats will be essential. And keep dogs away from them. Treat the tortoises like a big bowl of dark chocolate as far as dogs are concerned. Don't touch!!! Leave it!!!
5. They probably told you all the wrong stuff for brumation too, so we will help with that when the time comes in fall.

Please read these threads to learn the correct care for them. We are glad you found us, and I understand how unpleasant this may be for you, but imagine how unpleasant it would be to find this all out the hard way. Our goal here is only to help you and your tortoises. There is A LOT of bad tortoise care out in the world, but you have now found the correct info. I hope you will accept our help.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[EppsDynasty]

Welcome to the Forum
@Petey G ... 1 question for you...
How well do you want to care for your new Tortoises?
.........
...
You want the BEST right? Well to get the best you have to do some research, just like coming here to get your questions answered. You can not expect to know what it is you need to know on day one. There is no person on this planet that learned everything there is to about tortoises in 7 hours. Tom is 100% right .... Do some research and see for yourself thats a Dude. When you realize that it should prove to you 100% "The Living Desert" is obviously not a Desert Tortoise expert. PLEASE do not let feelings get in the way of the care those 2 deserve. NO ONE here has anything wrong with you, just refuse repeating the same wrong husbandry techniques. The person that first answered your questions was one of most knowledgeable people on Desert Tortoises....on the planet. As I said please do not get bent outta shape over something you have not even done, yet. If you continue the same care techniques "The Living Desert" told you then you to will be making more innocent Tortoises suffer. We all want you to succeed at this, that means the tortoises are happy and healthy. We as well want to hear how it's working for you, that's how we all learn. I look forward to hearing from you here on the forum.

 

[JoJosMom]

I 100% agree with @Yvonne G @Tom @EppsDynasty.

Correct me if I am wrong here guys but isn't cabbage a no no for torts?

@Petey G What caught my attention is that you indicate they are 2 females. Then once Yvonne advised you have a male, your response back to her indicated again "these girls". You completely disregarded that fact. It concerns me that you have these two and continue to insist they are both girls.

In my opinion, you should not have these tortoises unless you are willing to drop every bit of incorrect information that you have ingrained into your head and start opening your eyes to the facts for which is necessary to give proper care to them both. I understand that you think that these 2 are females, presumably because the "The Living Desert" says so, but that just goes to show that even the folks you got them from are wrong in their information. We have real experts on the forum. Not from reading books experts but real long life experienced experts.

If you truly want what is best for these two, then I suggest you clear the misinformation you have been given and read the information provided here. It is real, it is from experience and it will give your torts the best care they could possibly get. Please for the best interest of those tortoises, listen to what facts are being given to you.

Knowledge from Experience, Knowledge from Experience, Knowledge from Experience............

 

[Petey G]

The living desert, like almost every source of info for this species, is all wrong. They learned from the same wrong sources as everyone else, and now teach the wrong info to new people who believe them to be credible. They will quote biologists and state agencies, and it is all wrong wrong wrong. I say this based on decades of doing it all wrong their way, and then figuring out what was right and why it was right, and then doing it right, with MANY species for another decade and a half. I'm happy to explain more if you want me to. Its a long story. Yvonne has more DT experience over more years than most people on this earth. She knows her stuff.

1. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. They should not have grown up together, and they shouldn't be together right now. Groups of juveniles can sometimes work, but not pairs. They do just fine as the sole kings and queens of their own realms.
2. At least one of those is a male. This fact alone should alert you to how little the people you got them from know. When two males are housed together, it will often suppress the appearance of the secondary sexual characteristics of the subordinate one. I've seen this with several species, including DTs. They might both be male. The one in the right hand of the person in the picture is a male. You can tell by the gular scutes and the chin glands that are already obvious in this young tortoise.
3. This species should never be fed fruit. Do they like it? Yes. I like ice cream, but that doesn't make it "good" for me. The sugars in fruits wreak havoc with their GI tracts. They will survive being fed fruit in most cases, but it is not what they should be eating. Grasses, weeds, leaves and flowers of the right types. One of their natural foods in the wild is opuntia cactus. You should plant lots of the different spineless varieties, and feed them the pads a couple few times per week. Just give them whole pads. Don't cut it into chunks, as they can choke on irregularly shaped chunks. They can't choke on their own "bite sized" pieces.
4. If they didn't teach you about hydration, you need to know to keep them hydrated. Dehydration is the number one kiler of this species, followed closely by dog maulings. You should soak them every day for a couple of weeks, and then taper down to every other day over the hot dry summers. Sprinklers and misters are great for them in your scorching summers, and their underground retreats will be essential. And keep dogs away from them. Treat the tortoises like a big bowl of dark chocolate as far as dogs are concerned. Don't touch!!! Leave it!!!
5. They probably told you all the wrong stuff for brumation too, so we will help with that when the time comes in fall.

Please read these threads to learn the correct care for them. We are glad you found us, and I understand how unpleasant this may be for you, but imagine how unpleasant it would be to find this all out the hard way. Our goal here is only to help you and your tortoises. There is A LOT of bad tortoise care out in the world, but you have now found the correct info. I hope you will accept our help.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Absolutely I appreciate the input! Great info. Got it on the fruit and our 16 yo dog doesn’t know they exist, nor could she be bothered (Or ever have access to the torts unattended). Attached are a couple of quick videos. Please take a look and let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks, Pete

The living desert, like almost every source of info for this species, is all wrong. They learned from the same wrong sources as everyone else, and now teach the wrong info to new people who believe them to be credible. They will quote biologists and state agencies, and it is all wrong wrong wrong. I say this based on decades of doing it all wrong their way, and then figuring out what was right and why it was right, and then doing it right, with MANY species for another decade and a half. I'm happy to explain more if you want me to. Its a long story. Yvonne has more DT experience over more years than most people on this earth. She knows her stuff.

1. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. They should not have grown up together, and they shouldn't be together right now. Groups of juveniles can sometimes work, but not pairs. They do just fine as the sole kings and queens of their own realms.
2. At least one of those is a male. This fact alone should alert you to how little the people you got them from know. When two males are housed together, it will often suppress the appearance of the secondary sexual characteristics of the subordinate one. I've seen this with several species, including DTs. They might both be male. The one in the right hand of the person in the picture is a male. You can tell by the gular scutes and the chin glands that are already obvious in this young tortoise.
3. This species should never be fed fruit. Do they like it? Yes. I like ice cream, but that doesn't make it "good" for me. The sugars in fruits wreak havoc with their GI tracts. They will survive being fed fruit in most cases, but it is not what they should be eating. Grasses, weeds, leaves and flowers of the right types. One of their natural foods in the wild is opuntia cactus. You should plant lots of the different spineless varieties, and feed them the pads a couple few times per week. Just give them whole pads. Don't cut it into chunks, as they can choke on irregularly shaped chunks. They can't choke on their own "bite sized" pieces.
4. If they didn't teach you about hydration, you need to know to keep them hydrated. Dehydration is the number one kiler of this species, followed closely by dog maulings. You should soak them every day for a couple of weeks, and then taper down to every other day over the hot dry summers. Sprinklers and misters are great for them in your scorching summers, and their underground retreats will be essential. And keep dogs away from them. Treat the tortoises like a big bowl of dark chocolate as far as dogs are concerned. Don't touch!!! Leave it!!!
5. They probably told you all the wrong stuff for brumation too, so we will help with that when the time comes in fall.

Please read these threads to learn the correct care for them. We are glad you found us, and I understand how unpleasant this may be for you, but imagine how unpleasant it would be to find this all out the hard way. Our goal here is only to help you and your tortoises. There is A LOT of bad tortoise care out in the world, but you have now found the correct info. I hope you will accept our help.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

The living desert, like almost every source of info for this species, is all wrong. They learned from the same wrong sources as everyone else, and now teach the wrong info to new people who believe them to be credible. They will quote biologists and state agencies, and it is all wrong wrong wrong. I say this based on decades of doing it all wrong their way, and then figuring out what was right and why it was right, and then doing it right, with MANY species for another decade and a half. I'm happy to explain more if you want me to. Its a long story. Yvonne has more DT experience over more years than most people on this earth. She knows her stuff.

1. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. They should not have grown up together, and they shouldn't be together right now. Groups of juveniles can sometimes work, but not pairs. They do just fine as the sole kings and queens of their own realms.
2. At least one of those is a male. This fact alone should alert you to how little the people you got them from know. When two males are housed together, it will often suppress the appearance of the secondary sexual characteristics of the subordinate one. I've seen this with several species, including DTs. They might both be male. The one in the right hand of the person in the picture is a male. You can tell by the gular scutes and the chin glands that are already obvious in this young tortoise.
3. This species should never be fed fruit. Do they like it? Yes. I like ice cream, but that doesn't make it "good" for me. The sugars in fruits wreak havoc with their GI tracts. They will survive being fed fruit in most cases, but it is not what they should be eating. Grasses, weeds, leaves and flowers of the right types. One of their natural foods in the wild is opuntia cactus. You should plant lots of the different spineless varieties, and feed them the pads a couple few times per week. Just give them whole pads. Don't cut it into chunks, as they can choke on irregularly shaped chunks. They can't choke on their own "bite sized" pieces.
4. If they didn't teach you about hydration, you need to know to keep them hydrated. Dehydration is the number one kiler of this species, followed closely by dog maulings. You should soak them every day for a couple of weeks, and then taper down to every other day over the hot dry summers. Sprinklers and misters are great for them in your scorching summers, and their underground retreats will be essential. And keep dogs away from them. Treat the tortoises like a big bowl of dark chocolate as far as dogs are concerned. Don't touch!!! Leave it!!!
5. They probably told you all the wrong stuff for brumation too, so we will help with that when the time comes in fall.

Please read these threads to learn the correct care for them. We are glad you found us, and I understand how unpleasant this may be for you, but imagine how unpleasant it would be to find this all out the hard way. Our goal here is only to help you and your tortoises. There is A LOT of bad tortoise care out in the world, but you have now found the correct info. I hope you will accept our help.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for all of the great information. Certainly lots to ponder! I spoke with the woman who facilitated the re-homing about some of the concerns that you have raised. She has been doing this for 50 years and works, not only with the Living Desert (a highly respected “zoo” who’s primary purpose is conservation), but also with with

I 100% agree with @Yvonne G @Tom @EppsDynasty.

Correct me if I am wrong here guys but isn't cabbage a no no for torts?

@Petey G What caught my attention is that you indicate they are 2 females. Then once Yvonne advised you have a male, your response back to her indicated again "these girls". You completely disregarded that fact. It concerns me that you have these two and continue to insist they are both girls.

In my opinion, you should not have these tortoises unless you are willing to drop every bit of incorrect information that you have ingrained into your head and start opening your eyes to the facts for which is necessary to give proper care to them both. I understand that you think that these 2 are females, presumably because the "The Living Desert" says so, but that just goes to show that even the folks you got them from are wrong in their information. We have real experts on the forum. Not from reading books experts but real long life experienced experts.

If you truly want what is best for these two, then I suggest you clear the misinformation you have been given and read the information provided here. It is real, it is from experience and it will give your torts the best care they could possibly get. Please for the best interest of those tortoises, listen to what facts are being given to you.

Knowledge from Experience, Knowledge from Experience, Knowledge from Experience............

Yes, I am working with experts. I don’t know you people from a hole in the wall. Because some strangers tells me that they are not girls does not make it so. My “expert” has been doing this for 50 years and is working with the most respected scientists and conservationists in the field, I think I’ll follow her lead while researching on my own. Is that the Knowledge from Experience that you’re referring to??

 

[Petey G]

Welcome to the Forum
@Petey G ... 1 question for you...
How well do you want to care for your new Tortoises?
.........
...
You want the BEST right? Well to get the best you have to do some research, just like coming here to get your questions answered. You can not expect to know what it is you need to know on day one. There is no person on this planet that learned everything there is to about tortoises in 7 hours. Tom is 100% right .... Do some research and see for yourself thats a Dude. When you realize that it should prove to you 100% "The Living Desert" is obviously not a Desert Tortoise expert. PLEASE do not let feelings get in the way of the care those 2 deserve. NO ONE here has anything wrong with you, just refuse repeating the same wrong husbandry techniques. The person that first answered your questions was one of most knowledgeable people on Desert Tortoises....on the planet. As I said please do not get bent outta shape over something you have not even done, yet. If you continue the same care techniques "The Living Desert" told you then you to will be making more innocent Tortoises suffer. We all want you to succeed at this, that means the tortoises are happy and healthy. We as well want to hear how it's working for you, that's how we all learn. I look forward to hearing from you here on the forum.

Thank you. I’m not bent outta shape and yes, I am new to this and will provide for these torts the best I can and continue to educate myself. The torts appear happy and healthy and I have permits from the California Dept of Fish and Game that also state that they are girls. But there is tons of conflicting information on the web so until I learn otherwise, these torts are girls and I have faith in the woman that organized the re-homing.

 

[Petey G]

Thank you. I’m not bent outta shape and yes, I am new to this and will provide for these torts the best I can and continue to educate myself. The torts appear happy and healthy and I have permits from the California Dept of Fish and Game that also state that they are girls. But there is tons of conflicting information on the web so until I learn otherwise, these torts are girls and I have faith in the woman that organized the re-homing.

You put The Living Desert in quotes…are any of the respondents on this forum familiar with the organization or what they do? This is NOT a “puppy mill” for torts. If people are not aware of them, maybe they should take a look before being disparaging.

 

[SinLA]

I don't know anything about them specifically (I don't think anyone accused them of being a mill - especially because you can't actually legally breed CDTs so no one is saying that, its odd that is what is being honed in on) - but they are saying what info they are offering you is out of sync with what the people on this forum believe to be good husbandry. Honestly that's not uncommon. I work in a SCHOOL and I get teachers who tell me "they know" how to care for a tortoise because "they were told" and its the same old crap that is terrible tortoise husbandry that's been around for decades.

BUT in any case. but that one tort is 1000% male - no question about it. Feel free to flash that photo around another sources. Once you get enough votes that its a male, or eventually something like a flash will convince you its a male, then you have to take on faith that if they couldn't tell the difference between a male and a female, then there's a whole lot of other info likely wrong.

Look - you do you. You came here for advice, you don't like what you got, you go ahead and do what you feel is right. But eventually you are going to have one bullied tortoise and it will sure suck for that one.

 

[Yvonne G]

Just FYI: The information on the permit comes from input by The Living Desert. They mis identified the gender because the tortoises are not yet full grown. It was an easy mistake. Folks at The Living Desert are doing the best they can, however, they are not tuned in to the times. A whole lot has changed in the recent past and quite a few breeders and keepers have not kept up.

Just keep an eye on your 'girls' and make sure they're still living peacably. We here on the Forum have no ulterior motive except for your tortoise to do the best he can under your care.

 

[Petey G]

I don't know anything about them specifically (I don't think anyone accused them of being a mill - especially because you can't actually legally breed CDTs so no one is saying that, its odd that is what is being honed in on) - but they are saying what info they are offering you is out of sync with what the people on this forum believe to be good husbandry. Honestly that's not uncommon. I work in a SCHOOL and I get teachers who tell me "they know" how to care for a tortoise because "they were told" and its the same old crap that is terrible tortoise husbandry that's been around for decades.

BUT in any case. but that one tort is 1000% male - no question about it. Feel free to flash that photo around another sources. Once you get enough votes that its a male, or eventually something like a flash will convince you its a male, then you have to take on faith that if they couldn't tell the difference between a male and a female, then there's a whole lot of other info likely wrong.

Look - you do you. You came here for advice, you don't like what you got, you go ahead and do what you feel is right. But eventually you are going to have one bullied tortoise and it will sure suck for that one.

Thank you. More food for thought. 1000% is pretty definitive. I definitely don’t want to breed them or cause one to be brutalized. 👍🏼

 

[SinLA]

Thank you. More food for thought. 1000% is pretty definitive. I definitely don’t want to breed them or cause one to be brutalized. 👍🏼

Another key thing to remember - and this is really important - is that unless you know tortoise behavior, many people do not recognize bad/bullying behavior. Sure its easy when you see one always mounting another, or flipping the other, but what we see here is "oh they love each other, look how they snuggle. They always eat together and are following each other around." And that is super adorable loving mammal behavior, but its absolutely territorial aggressive behavior in tortoises but people don't recognize it.

Also we get "is it weird that one is so much smaller than the other"? and its like YES one is smaller and lighter because its been the victim of bullying by the other but you didn't recognize it.

 

[Yvonne G]

@Petey G - Thank you for being receptive. So many new members become offended and argumentative when we don't say what they want to hear. I'm glad you're open and listening. You may not believe us, or change your ways, but you're listening. That's good!!!

 

[Tom]

You put The Living Desert in quotes…are any of the respondents on this forum familiar with the organization or what they do? This is NOT a “puppy mill” for torts. If people are not aware of them, maybe they should take a look before being disparaging.

I am aware of them. People I know have worked for them and with them for years. They mean well, but don't understand tortoise care. As I said before, they have all the usual old wrong info that almost everyone else has. I too have been keeping Chelonia since the 70s. Its not the quantity of time that matters, it is the quality. I did it "their way" for nearly two decades. It produces poor results, and that is why I began experimenting, studying, and trying to figure out what was wrong, what was right and why. I did much of that experimentation right here on this forum over the last 14-15 years in full public view. We now know what works best and why, but many old-timers are completely unaware of this new and better info, and have no idea what is really going on. When the babies in their care die or pyramid, they say things like, "Well some of them just aren't meant to survive..." It is pure ignorance based on decades old incorrect assumptions about how they live in the wild.

I could go on about this for hours, but the short version is that most of the care info out in the world is wrong, and we are trying to share the right info with you for the benefit of the tortoises in your care. My style of typing/writing can come across as blunt at times, but my intentions are nothing but golden. Please feel free to question any of this. Make me explain more and prove it. Argue. Some of the best threads here where we all learn the most are when people argue their points respectfully, and both sides are more thoroughly understood.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

It is not an absolute no no. Yes, it contains oxalates that interfere with the tortoises calcium absortion, but it can still be offered OCCASIONALLY, AS A PART OF A VARIED DIET. So not a absolute no no, but something you should be careful with and make sure you are not feeding too much.

Correct me if I am wrong here guys but isn't cabbage a no no for torts?

 

[Tom]

It is not an absolute no no. Yes, it contains oxalates that interfere with the tortoises calcium absortion, but it can still be offered OCCASIONALLY, AS A PART OF A VARIED DIET. So not a absolute no no, but something you should be careful with and make sure you are not feeding too much.

I think goiterogens are the bigger concern with the brassica family. High oxalate content is usually listed as a concern for spinach, which is also fine to feed them occasionally as part of a varied diet.

 

[JoJosMom]

Absolutely I appreciate the input! Great info. Got it on the fruit and our 16 yo dog doesn’t know they exist, nor could she be bothered (Or ever have access to the torts unattended). Attached are a couple of quick videos. Please take a look and let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks, Pete



Thank you for all of the great information. Certainly lots to ponder! I spoke with the woman who facilitated the re-homing about some of the concerns that you have raised. She has been doing this for 50 years and works, not only with the Living Desert (a highly respected “zoo” who’s primary purpose is conservation), but also with with

Yes, I am working with experts. I don’t know you people from a hole in the wall. Because some strangers tells me that they are not girls does not make it so. My “expert” has been doing this for 50 years and is working with the most respected scientists and conservationists in the field, I think I’ll follow her lead while researching on my own. Is that the Knowledge from Experience that you’re referring to??

Unfortunately it is not the Knowledge from Experience I was referring to. But I believe you have already read the thread above from @Tom which is exactly the Knowledge from Experience I was referring to.
I am glad to see you are listening. For your torts sake, I hope you start learning. Keep coming back, I can't encourage you enough to spend some time going through threads on this forum. I promise our replies are NOT malicious, our replies are blunt and honest because we are passionate.

 

[JoJosMom]

It is not an absolute no no. Yes, it contains oxalates that interfere with the tortoises calcium absortion, but it can still be offered OCCASIONALLY, AS A PART OF A VARIED DIET. So not a absolute no no, but something you should be careful with and make sure you are not feeding too much.

I think goiterogens are the bigger concern with the brassica family. High oxalate content is usually listed as a concern for spinach, which is also fine to feed them occasionally as part of a varied diet.

Finally! Someone answered my question!! I remembered it wasn't recommended because of the interference with the thyroid and damaging to the liver and kidneys. I was wondering a while back and had found some info on the tort table about it. Thank you gentlemen for clarifying!