New beginnings for Pearly's Babies

[Pearly]

. Hi there, Tortoise Lovers! Please, check out this new setup and kindly critique. It is a 40 gal tank with metal screen cover. It houses 2.5inch RF and 2 inch Cherryhead for now. The goal is to keep them sufficiently warm and humid until they get little bigger and develop voracious appetites. I put 100 watt bulb for basking and fluorescent tube for UVB on "desert side" of the habitat, and ceramic heat emitting bulb right above their hides (in dark "forest" area). They have wooden bend-a-bridge, 1/2 woodden log hides and terracotta pot that's partially buried to choose from and are still exploring all 3. All 3 hides are covered with moist live moss that partially covers the hide entrances blocking the light for them during their naps. There is a Terracotta dish for watering hole in desert to keep the water warm, and I'm looking for nice piece of slate tile for serving food, but food dishes used for now work just fine. There are couple of rocks holding the roots of the Aloe plant that our RF girl seems to enjoy for climbing back and forth (), plants are all live, succulents, tropicals and edible per care sheets, though for now the babies show no interest in them. There are dial thermometers and hygrometers on hot and cooler side of the terrarium. There is digital probe thermometer and hygrometer in the hide area (as seen on one of the pictures attached) plus the infrared "gun thermometer" for spot checks all over. For substrate we have Reptibark on the bottom covered with thick layer of coco coir. I'm considering lining food and water dishes with moss or something to keep them clean. The earthworms on one of the pics are the ones that I bought for the babies to eat but after offering them few times and lack of interest in them I dumped them all in the substrate as seen on one of the pics. They all (worms) seem to have congregated under the water bowl. I will get my kids to collect some pillbugs when Texas weather cools down a bit and will try to add them as well as to give our babies "cleaning service crew". Hopefully. If the bugs and worms don't work we'll just replace the whole things with new sterile substrate and start all over again. Hope some of you Guys visit my thread and post comments, suggestions, pictures. I welcome all of them and can't wait to hear your stories of comparison or contrast to mine, what has worked, what hasn't. Wishing you all a great Tortoise Day

 

[Pearly]

One more thing, now that I hope to have covered all the important details of the habitat, let me ask about humidity. We do mist couple of times a day, babies needed it, but so do the plants and the moss. With the lamps sitting on top (on the screen) I'm thinking of good/safe way to cover it to keep humidity and temps at even more consistent levels. Could possibly do make shift patchwork covers in between the lamps... Or... Maybe some kind of aluminum foil? Would that be safe? Ideas, please?

 

[Tom]

Covering the top with foil will be relatively safe and it will help hold in humidity, but have the heat sources outside still creates a chimney effect. Nothing beat a closed chamber.

I would double the thickness of substrate, wet it more, hand pack it down to keep it less messy and get rid of the hay before it molds.

Open tops are problematic for any species, but especially so with redfoots. The reason is because you have to keep it pretty wet to maintain the needed humidity, but constant wetness causes shell rot in RFs. In a closed chamber with the lights inside, I maintain substrate that is dry on top, but I still have 80% humidity.

 

[Pearly]

I'll have to keep trying different things. The hay that's in the corner of the desert, is just that tiny handful i put it there in the driest spot just for the interest (maybe munching?) and to keep the cuttlebone clean on top of it. It will be easy enough to pick up. Do you have pictures of your closed chambers on this site anywhere?

 

[Pearly]

Covering the top with foil will be relatively safe and it will help hold in humidity, but have the heat sources outside still creates a chimney effect. Nothing beat a closed chamber.

I would double the thickness of substrate, wet it more, hand pack it down to keep it less messy and get rid of the hay before it molds.

Open tops are problematic for any species, but especially so with redfoots. The reason is because you have to keep it pretty wet to maintain the needed humidity, but constant wetness causes shell rot in RFs. In a closed chamber with the lights inside, I maintain substrate that is dry on top, but I still have 80% humidity.

I'm watching the temp go up pretty quickly. Yes, it would be fantastic for retaining humidity but I'm concerned about the heat. I think I'll experiment with it later when we take the babies for their 1-2 hr outing and bath. This will be a good time to let it simmer and see where the temp rise would stop. Also about the humidity... I'm having trouble with it. Don't mind misting few times a day, but then don't want to get the substrate top layer wet... Thinking of looking for humidifier somewhere (like the ones some zoo's have in their reptile enclosures, but guess those tiny droplets would be falling on the substrate as well, so could you please direct me to a step-by-step-for-the-6-year-olds instructions on that? I don't mean to sound dumb but... even in close chamber, how does one keep things humid with the substrate dry on surface? Sorry! If that's dumb question just face-palm me, I won't be offended. Just looking for answers here

 

[Pearly]

In my initial post of this thread you could see the various stages of work on this habitat. Now its structurally things are roughly in place and just need tweaking. Time to get serious about plants. This being "glassed in" with heat, light and moisture will be a perfect greenhouse. I love gardening (been my hobby for many years) and will take this opportunity to employ some of my skills here. Has anyone ever planted seeds in the indoor enclosure to offer feedback?

 

[Pearly]

planted bunch of 2 kinds of Wanderingjew, this one the green variety is getting ready to bloom and I made it into a bushy tree. and another type of a jew this one I had much smaller cuttings and are not well visible here. This corner of the habitat has those tall shade loving plants to create the "forest feel" for them. put Umbrella plant in the middle (it's tropical, should do ok between full sun and shade

 

[Pearly]

succulents in the "desert". Need to find few more nice rocks to anchor the roots as the babies tend to knock them over, succulents especially

 

[Tom]

I'm watching the temp go up pretty quickly. Yes, it would be fantastic for retaining humidity but I'm concerned about the heat. I think I'll experiment with it later when we take the babies for their 1-2 hr outing and bath. This will be a good time to let it simmer and see where the temp rise would stop. Also about the humidity... I'm having trouble with it. Don't mind misting few times a day, but then don't want to get the substrate top layer wet... Thinking of looking for humidifier somewhere (like the ones some zoo's have in their reptile enclosures, but guess those tiny droplets would be falling on the substrate as well, so could you please direct me to a step-by-step-for-the-6-year-olds instructions on that? I don't mean to sound dumb but... even in close chamber, how does one keep things humid with the substrate dry on surface? Sorry! If that's dumb question just face-palm me, I won't be offended. Just looking for answers here

One of the benefits of a closed chamber and holding all your heat and humidity is that you burn a fraction of the electricity. Bulbs that work in an open topped enclosure will be way too hot for even a large closed chamber. I love using only 65 watts to accomplish what would take 300 or more in the same sized open topped enclosure.

Misting and open tops will make it very difficult to maintain the correct temps and humidity.

The problem with an open top is that all of the heat and humidity is free to mix with the air in the room. Its like trying to keep cold ice water in an open topped cup while the cup is submerged in a hot tub. If you put your ice water in a sealed container that can't mix with the hot tub water it will stay colder longer. Does that make sense? Its physics. In my closed chambers I keep the lower layers of the substrate damp and the upper later dry-ish. The water evaporates out of the water dishes and the substrate, but that evaporated water is trapped in my closed chamber with nowhere to go. If the top was open all that evaporated water would just drift up and out into the room, as yours is right now.

Another big factor is the placement of your heating and lighting equipment. Go put your hand near your heat lamp fixture while it is on. Now put your hand down on the substrate under the heat lamp. Even with a dome, more heat is going up and into the room than down into your enclosure. Further, heat rises, so as the warm air rises, cooler drier room air is drawn into the enclosure. Then you need more misting to keep it from drying out, but more misting means more evaporative cooling. More evaporative cooling means you need hotter bulbs to maintain the correct temps. It is a vicious cycle and you can't win. Put that same heat lamp in a closed chamber and ALL of the heat stays inside the enclosure where we want it. This means you need a much smaller bulb since you aren't wasting a huge percentage of the heat you are generating.

Does that all make sense? Instead of trying to heat and humidify all of the air in the entire room to the levels I need. I just heat and humidify a small contained portion of air.

 

[Pearly]

One of the benefits of a closed chamber and holding all your heat and humidity is that you burn a fraction of the electricity. Bulbs that work in an open topped enclosure will be way too hot for even a large closed chamber. I love using only 65 watts to accomplish what would take 300 or more in the same sized open topped enclosure.

Misting and open tops will make it very difficult to maintain the correct temps and humidity.

The problem with an open top is that all of the heat and humidity is free to mix with the air in the room. Its like trying to keep cold ice water in an open topped cup while the cup is submerged in a hot tub. If you put your ice water in a sealed container that can't mix with the hot tub water it will stay colder longer. Does that make sense? Its physics. In my closed chambers I keep the lower layers of the substrate damp and the upper later dry-ish. The water evaporates out of the water dishes and the substrate, but that evaporated water is trapped in my closed chamber with nowhere to go. If the top was open all that evaporated water would just drift up and out into the room, as yours is right now.

Another big factor is the placement of your heating and lighting equipment. Go put your hand near your heat lamp fixture while it is on. Now put your hand down on the substrate under the heat lamp. Even with a dome, more heat is going up and into the room than down into your enclosure. Further, heat rises, so as the warm air rises, cooler drier room air is drawn into the enclosure. Then you need more misting to keep it from drying out, but more misting means more evaporative cooling. More evaporative cooling means you need hotter bulbs to maintain the correct temps. It is a vicious cycle and you can't win. Put that same heat lamp in a closed chamber and ALL of the heat stays inside the enclosure where we want it. This means you need a much smaller bulb since you aren't wasting a huge percentage of the heat you are generating.

Does that all make sense? Instead of trying to heat and humidify all of the air in the entire room to the levels I need. I just heat and humidify a small contained portion of air.

Good morning! Of course it makes sense! I got the 100 watts because of the heat loss. Will have to experiment with lower wattage and then cover with foil. Yesterday it got way too hot. Once I get the temps right to keep the closed or part-closed habitat, I'll work on humidity. I know I'll get it right, I'm pretty persistent that way. Thank you for "taking me by the hand" on this. You seem to be one of very well respected experts here. I was hoping to find this kind of support on this forum

 

[Tom]

Good morning! Of course it makes sense! I got the 100 watts because of the heat loss. Will have to experiment with lower wattage and then cover with foil. Yesterday it got way too hot. Once I get the temps right to keep the closed or part-closed habitat, I'll work on humidity. I know I'll get it right, I'm pretty persistent that way. Thank you for "taking me by the hand" on this. You seem to be one of very well respected experts here. I was hoping to find this kind of support on this forum

Oh, I'm no expert. I'm just a guy on the internet that likes tortoises and has been keeping them a while.

I use a 65 watt flood bulb to heat my 4x8' closed chamber in summer. In a 40 gallon tank with the top mostly covered, you might only need a 35 watt. They make a light fixture with an inline rheostat too. You can find them at most pet stores. This way you can use whatever bulb you have and just dial it down to get the right temp.

 

[Pearly]

Oh, I'm no expert. I'm just a guy on the internet that likes tortoises and has been keeping them a while.

I use a 65 watt flood bulb to heat my 4x8' closed chamber in summer. In a 40 gallon tank with the top mostly covered, you might only need a 35 watt. They make a light fixture with an inline rheostat too. You can find them at most pet stores. This way you can use whatever bulb you have and just dial it down to get the right temp.

That's it! Rheostat sounds like what I need! Thanks again