New baby redfoot not eating

[goReptiles]

I got a baby redfoot Friday Oct 9th. I've offered proteins Saturday, greens monday and tuesday, and strawberries wednesday. So far, it hasn't eaten anything. I had to leave for work before I could see if he was going to eat the fruits.

He's about 9 months old and about 3 inches and 108.7 grams.

He hides all day long except after a warm soak, then he will wander a little bit, but still won't take food.

Am I just being a worried mom again?

 

[Kymiie]

Stubborn little guy!
Sound to me he is just not used to his surroundings and is being mardy...mine did that!
Keep an eye on him eating though, try now with s strawberrie mush it up and hand feed him!!
Its ok to worry its normal for people to worrie i do all the time so i ask all my questions on here.

Let me know how the feeding goes xxxxx

 

[Meg90]

What is his environment like? Can you please describe your lighting and temps, and humidity? Also, a picture would be awesome.

 

[Madkins007]

A quick checklist:

1. New tortoises are VERY shy- lots of changes and it takes about a week to get over it. Usually it is best to just let them be as much as possible until they settle in.

2. This is a good time to review the basic cares. www.redfoots.com is a good site for beginners, or just ask here.
- Size: Is the tank big enough to move around freely? I like 8 tortoise-lengths by 4 tortoise-lengths.
- Temps: Aim for a range of about 80-88F, with a hide in the warm area
- Light: Keep it low key for the young'un. A UVB light would be really nice, but make it a low output unit and be sure there are places to hide ni the shade.
- Humidity: At least part of the habitat needs to be very, very humid- 90% or so, but this can be a hide or whatever. The overall space should be 50% or higher if possible.
- Fresh, clean water available at all times, ideally sunk in so it can dip its head and submerge it to drink

Don't worry too much for a few more days (assuming the tortoise is reasonably healthy and the habitat is set up right). Sometime soon it will probably poke its head out and grab a few bites, then be eating big time a day or two later.

 

[goReptiles]

He's in a 50 gallon tote with the warmer area are right around 80F. I haven't been using the light but a low watt heat emitting bulb.

As for UV, I have an old UV fixture that supports the tubes, is this ok? If so, what is the best method to secure it to a storage tote? It fits a 10 gallon tank.

I was using a UV and heat emitting bulb, but I read where that's not really recommended, as it also emits light. It's the Zoomed power sun bulb. I've been trying to figure out how to attach the tube fixture since then.

I mist the enclosure daily. I've been trying to keep the substrate moist to keep the humidity up, although I do not have the reading for what percent it is.

Oh, when I went home to check on him and to see if he'd eaten any of the strawberries, he hadn't.

 

[Shelli]

Have you seen your baby drink? I cannot help you other than you must be so worried.. Poor little guy I hope he feels better real soon!

 

[Meg90]

I don't think that is warm enough....Also, you need a brand new bulb if you are using a tube. Those bulbs need to be changed out every 6 months because the UVB output stops being high enough to keep your animal healthy.

Put a towel, or a piece of plexi across the top of the rubbermaid to keep humidity in better. What substrate are you using? If your humidity is low, I would say mist with warm water twice a day, not just once.

Please do post pictures though. 1 picture is worth 1000 words, really.

Does your baby still have the egg tooth? What is its SCL?

 

[Shelli]

Also, you need a brand new bulb if you are using a tube. Those bulbs need to be changed out every 6 months because the UVB output stops being high enough to keep your animal healthy.

I thought this was a RF we were talking about.. I get soo confused with different info.. I didnt' think high UVB was as necessary with a RF to keep them healthy as they can produce it through their diet and they are used to living in darker conditions..

 

[goReptiles]

I don't think that is warm enough....Also, you need a brand new bulb if you are using a tube. Those bulbs need to be changed out every 6 months because the UVB output stops being high enough to keep your animal healthy.

Put a towel, or a piece of plexi across the top of the rubbermaid to keep humidity in better. What substrate are you using? If your humidity is low, I would say mist with warm water twice a day, not just once.

Please do post pictures though. 1 picture is worth 1000 words, really.

Does your baby still have the egg tooth? What is its SCL?

The tubes actually work best when replacing every 4 months. I was just asking if the tube was ok to use, and if so, what is the best way to attach it. It's an old clamp, but new tube.

If I could use the Zoomed power sun that would be great too, anyone know if those are ok? I have a brand new one that I'm not using.

I'm using bedabeast and sphagnum moss.

I will try to get pictures.

---

I thought this was a RF we were talking about.. I get soo confused with different info.. I didnt' think high UVB was as necessary with a RF to keep them healthy as they can produce it through their diet and they are used to living in darker conditions..

That I'm still trying to figure out. No animal can produce the vitamins that UV provides from diet alone. They can get some, but it's like human (if you ask me) we can't live solely on milk and cheese to provide D3. We still need the sun to give us D3 and many other vitamins that we can't get solely from diet.

I still don't understand how redfoots are semi-diurnal and do not need UV lighting, yet all the other diurnal reptiles need it, even those who have omnivorous diets.

 

[Meg90]

The powersun will be too bright. You need dimmer lights that recreate what the bottom of a heavily forested area would be...

RF still need UVB. Those bulbs just stop producing it after a few months, which is why they need to be changed frequently. The UVB allows them to absorb calcium. You can supplement Ca and D3 (D3 which is fat soluble and can eventually build up to a toxic level in their systems) but without the sun's rays (or imitation rays) the Ca cannot be absorbed. Which is why tort owners supplement Ca and use UVB.

 

[egyptiandan]

No Redfoots don't need a UV bulb to get the vitamin D that they need. They can get all the vitamin D they need through their diet (supplements and live animals). None of my Redfoots have UV lights and haven't for 3 to 4 years and only one has a light of any kind. They are doing and growing perfectly fine.
You just need to warm your little one up during the day. A ceramic heat emitter placed over the middle of your tote should give the heat you need during the day (80 to 86F), like Mark wrote. You can also use it at night to keep the enclosure from going below 70F.
Meg UV light is used by all animals to make vitamin D in the body. The vitamin D in combination with calcium and phosphorus is what the body needs to build bone.

Danny

 

[Shelli]

I have this old thread in my favorites just to put it out there.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-2073.html
I'm not one to say what is right or wrong, I do not have UVB for Olive but I will look into it some more as our winters are pretty long....
I supplement her with Calcium every day and every 7th day I give her Calcium with D3 this is since our weather turned colder before that she went outside for a little each day.
She gets the diet Terry has listed on redfoots.com so she get's her protein through cat food on rotation with leafs + + , fruit.
She also get's mushrooms.
However ... i'm in Canada and it's friggin gone really... coooold... now so we are bundling up and Olive no longer wants to frolic outside I am sure... !


Ooops didnt' mean to write the same as Dan we were writing at the same time.. :/

---

How is your little fella doing go?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

No Redfoots don't need a UV bulb to get the vitamin D that they need. They can get all the vitamin D they need through their diet (supplements and live animals). None of my Redfoots have UV lights and haven't for 3 to 4 years and only one has a light of any kind. They are doing and growing perfectly fine.
You just need to warm your little one up during the day. A ceramic heat emitter placed over the middle of your tote should give the heat you need during the day (80 to 86F), like Mark wrote. You can also use it at night to keep the enclosure from going below 70F.
Meg UV light is used by all animals to make vitamin D in the body. The vitamin D in combination with calcium and phosphorus is what the body needs to build bone.

Danny

FWIW.. I agree with Danny - the UVB tube bulbs that I use for light are from when I had Leopards.. back in '03.. 'spose there's any UVB in them? I haven't had any issues ( raising hatchlings since Feb. '05 ) from not using UVB bulbs.

It seems all redblooded herps, etc. need D3.. but it's different with omnivours and herbivours(spelling???)! Some bask and eat plants.. others eat "anything".. including animal matter!

Yes it may take awhile for a new redfoot to acclimate.. providing it is set-up right and was "started" right. We don't know how it was cared for the first 'months' of it's life.

Terry K

 

[Meg90]

See, I am not sure if I agree with the fact that they get everything from diet.

There is a similar argument with monitor lizards, and tegus. That they do not need UVB, because of their diet. However, I have seen case after case of MBD in tegus, and someone on another forum just recently had a 5 month old tegu injure its spine with very little movement on the animals part because of weakened bones at such a young age. The vet even diagnosed it as a break caused by improper supplementation.

The only animal that I have ever heard that can live without UVB that is comparable in some way to tortoises, are snakes. And that is because they eat a whole prey item diet, and nothing else.

But as always, I am learning. If some of the experts here have proven it not to be necessary, then I guess I was incorrect.

I'm sure one day I will have a RF, they are too darned cute to resist for long, but when that day comes I will be using UVB regardless of diet.

 

[Madkins007]

Here is the problem- we are guessing based on research on other animals and personal experiences. A lot of lizards cannot use dietary D3 to drive the calcium cycle... but lizards and tortoises are not very closely related so the research MAY not be applicable. The closest relevant research I can find is a report that young Red-ear Sliders with dietary D grow at the same rate for the 8 month trial as those with the same diet and UVB lighting- but that is not very conclusive.

We know young torts of most species hide most of the time- maybe they get their UVB from diet, or from the yolk sac, or... On the other hand, these guys have been bred for years without UVB. On the other, other hand, we have no idea if they would have been healthier or longer lived if they had been offered UVB. On yet another hand, Red-foot skin does not seem to be designed to use UVB much. Maybe the people not using UVB have enough pass through windows (about 5-10% of the UVB can get through glass). There are a lot of things that can be debated here.

My GUESS is that forest tortoises (and the Red-foot is a forest dweller in at least some of its range) CAN use dietary D2 and/or D3, but get more benefit from UVB... and I suspect that this might change as it gets older. They grow in what is called an S-curve- slow at first, then faster, then slower again as an adult. I'd bet that the slow growth can be powered by dietary D, but the faster growth and breeding may need UVB.

I don't have the sort of experience that Terry/Nerd and others have, but low-level UVB seems like a reasonable insurance policy- not so much UVB we burn/blast the tortoises. but enough that if they DO benefit from it in a meaningful way, they have it.



By the way...
GoReptiles said "No animal can produce the vitamins that UV provides from diet alone." Not to start a fight, but rats seem to be unable to process D3, and of course, many true nocturnal animals need some sort of other plan- as do deep cave dwellers and animals that always live below the penetration depth of UVB in water.

 

[fhintz]

When I first brought Themistocles home, I went through similar concerns as yours. It took her about a week to get used to her new home. I got a lot of good advice and support from folks here at this forum. I would say your baby is still taking time to adjust and not to worry too much about it. Other than just giving her time to adjust, I think the biggest key for Themistocles was getting her daytime temperature into the mid 80s and keeping the humidity up at least over 70. Good luck with the baby.

 

[harris]

I have been working with redfoots since 1988, and have never used a uvb bulb on them. Ever.

Try a scoop of canned catfood to get your little guy jumpstarted. Works for me almost every time. And I agree, bump your temps up a few degrees and work on the humidiy.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I have been working with redfoots since 1988, and have never used a uvb bulb on them. Ever.

Try a scoop of canned catfood to get your little guy jumpstarted. Works for me almost every time. And I agree, bump your temps up a few degrees and work on the humidiy.

There are what Harris.. 3? of us that ever comment here that have managed to not only keep "redfoots" alive but propagate for at least 10 years or more -- a typical hatchling to adult 'life-cycle'! -- in captivity. Hundreds of hatchlings.. untold numbers of scenarios.. and "basic systems" that work. Not to mention the personal contacts with those that actually live where these creatures live [ South America ].. you know like 'grew up in my back yard since I was a kid'!

The point is "when-it-works-don't-fix-it!".. and when it doesn't work ask those and listen to those that have proven it works. Of course there will always be those that have to question everything.. and wonder why their baby isn't thriving as it should/could.

[ I have experienced many that have emailed me.. only to find out that their "baby" wasn't STARTED right and/or shipped entirely too young...... before their eating habits have developed. Also have hundreds that received my babies that "eat-right-out-of-the-box"..... again the point is "It may take awhile til yours eats like it should - so making him 'comfortable' is the first thing you need to do... GET HIS TEMPS AND HUMIDITY AND LIGHTING RIGHT FIRST". Not yelling.. only making a point. ]

We can only try guys...

Terry K

 

[llamas55]

back to the little guy who is soaked and doesn't really eat, I would say find out what he was previously fed, and consider offering several types of food at a time, rather than one day lettuce/greens and another strawberries. like several cut up small veggies and fruits and a few grains of a dog food or cooked egg yolk just to tempt him to the greens and veggies. Is he eating since you posted?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

How do you have him set-up??? Once he is COMFORTABLE he'll eat!

Terry K