Nelson passed a bladder stone noooo

[ChiKat]

When I woke up this morning and checked on Nelson (9-month old Russian) I noticed what I think were bladder stones on his substrate, surrounded by urine. I'm so bummed, I feel like a bad tortoise owner for letting him get dehydrated
Here's a picture:

I was able to crumble them slightly between my fingers.

I'm going to start soaking him daily and I will be making a conscious effort to keep his substrate damp. I'll also wet his greens when I feed him, and make sure his water dish is full at all times. Is there anything else I can do to keep him hydrated?
His diet is low in oxalic acid so I don't see a need to change his diet really.

 

[t_mclellan]

I think those are just urates.
Its normal if they are.

 

[Meg90]

Katie, what are you feeding daily and supplementing?

I don't soak my hatchlings very often, and have not had a problem with dehydration. They have a bowl they can get into, and they use it. I know Nelson has his own bowl too, right?

 

[ChiKat]

I buy spring mix (no spinach or mizuna) and I also buy 1-2 different types of greens each week- escarole, curly endive, turnip greens, etc. I sprinkle TNT on his greens a few times a week. I also give him access to his little bowl of calcium powder and he will eat as much as he needs.

Nelson does have a water dish and I used to see him drinking out of it pretty often which is why I stopped soaking him as frequently. I'll have to be sure to fill it up with fresh water every morning before I go to work.

 

[samstar]

I think those are just urates.
Its normal if they are.

I thought urates are white in colour and more powdery form?

 

[tortoisenerd]

If they crumbled completely they are urates not a stone, just very dry urates. My tort actually has dry urates like those more often than the liquid ones, no matter what I try to do. I think what you are doing sounds good. I am doing the same and no matter what I try (low oxalic acid and even soaking him despite seeing him in his dish), I cannot get the urates to be less gritty/solid. For him, they are rather infrequent though (once a week or less). If this is the first time you've seen this I don't think that is too bad at all. I would continue what you are doing and keep an eye on things. Yes it is better to have the non gritty urates, but at the same time, if they aren't too frequent and you have done everything to combat dehydration that you can, no reason to worry about it. I have a feeling some torts are just more prone to them. A stone on the other hand would not break apart without tremendous force. My tort had one stone not long after I got him. It felt similar to a tiny hard plastic ball. It was buried within some gritty urates. I will smash the urates in the paper towel when I pick them up now to cheap for stones. No more after that so hopefully it was what the breeder fed him and not that they are too large to get out (I have seen scary xrays of torts with huge stones). Best wishes.

---

Sam-Ideally urates are a white liquid or semi-solid of sorts (can resemble toothpaste or egg white). More gritty or solid is not ideal but still urates.

 

[ChiKat]

Well I'm glad that they're urates and not a stone...unfortunately they're very dry
Thank you Kate for easing my mind a little!

 

[matt41gb]

I agree what you saw are urates, but in the dry form. We remove bladder stones all the time at work, they are always hard and smooth. Just make sure he has access to water at all times.

 

[spikethebest]

I agree what you saw are urates, but in the dry form. We remove bladder stones all the time at work, they are always hard and smooth. Just make sure he has access to water at all times.

how do you remove bladder stones? please look at this thread... are these bladder stones?

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-12544.html

 

[matt41gb]

It does look like small stones/sand in the bladder. I'm used to mostly dogs with this problem. I see that on x-ray all the time. I'm not exactly where a tortoises bladder is situated, but it looks to be about where I think it would be.

In dogs, we will place a catheter into the urethra. The doctor will then expose the bladder surgically and make an incision into the bladder wall. We then use a large syringe full of sterile water connected to the catheter and flush out any stones. Some are stuck in the urethra, but most hang out in the bladder.

You may want to see if whatever vet you try next will do a urinalysis on your tortoise. This will give an idea if he has sand, crystals, or blood in the urine. The blood caused by irritation from calcium oxalate stones. I don't know what the protocol is for tortoises, but this is pretty standard for dogs with bladder stone problems.

-Matt

 

[samstar]

Can too much calcium powder cause stones?

 

[ChiKat]

how do you remove bladder stones? please look at this thread... are these bladder stones?

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-12544.html

Here's an interesting website about a bladder stone removal in a tortoise. Warning: some of the pictures are graphic!

eta: Forgot to include the link http://www.lbah.com/reptile/cdtbladderstone.htm

 

[Yvonne G]

Katie: That was so interesting. Thank you for finding that for us.

 

[evabug1]

Whoa that bladder stone from the link was huge!

 

[Shelly]

We remove bladder stones all the time at work, they are always hard and smooth.

Believe it or not, they can sometimes be quite beautiful.

 

[jlyoncc1]

Holy cow that was so big! Can't imagine how uncomfortable that must have been!