Mulch cleaning or changing

[Tortoise Rescue Brenda]

Otis is 5 years old and lives outside in a 32'x40' enclosure.

I use mulch inside Otis' "cave" for him to dig in. There is hay in his house for temperature maintenance. I stir up the mulch and the hay every few days. I always shovel out his feces from both places within 24 hours which removes any parts that are visually soiled. I turn on a mister in one or both of these spaces for hydration when Otis is in them each day. I add hay or mulch to the areas as needed after some depletion from feces removal. If I notice any mold, which I haven't thus far, I will remove that of course.

Do I need to remove and replace either the mulch or the hay on any regular basis? My concern is bacteria growth that may cause harm. I already plan to remove and replace both at least each spring. Can I use any wood for the mulch? We have our own wood chipper attachment for the tractor and a lot of hack berry trees.

Thank you for the info.

Brenda

 

[vladimir]

Otis is adorable!

If you're going to be changing the mulch in both areas each spring, I would just continue what you're doing. The only concern I might have is I've heard that wet hay molds easily, so you may want to only mist the mulch areas and not the hay.

Let's see what others say.

 

[Tom]

Good morning Professor! I see a few things to point out in answering your question:

• I would not use a mister over hay. Hay needs to be kept dry.
• I use hay in a couple of my night boxes and I remove and replace it every week or two. The right type of mulch can stay much longer.
• Hay will do nothing for "temperature maintenance" on an animal that is not generating its own body heat. Hay only works for mammals and birds by containing some of the heat their bodies are generating from within.
• Your tortoise shed there is not going to be warm enough for winter without some substantial insulation and modification.
• The types of mulch we usually recommend, cypress and fir bark, have properties that inhibit mold, fungal and bacterial growth. This is the primary reason we recommend them. I don't know if hack berry tree mulch has these properties or not. Most wood readily rots when mulched, so I would guess that hack berry mulch probably doesn't have these properties.
• Keep an eye on your tortoise's plastron. This will tell the story. If you are soaking a couple of times a week, this would be a good time to examine the plastron and look for any sign of damage or rot. If you find none, then continue on. You've found new and innovative ways to house your tortoise. If you find a problem, then you might need to switch from the unconventional methods you've chosen and go with the known products and techniques that have been time tested.

 

[Tortoise Rescue Brenda]

Thank you both. Would mulch be a better bedding for the house than hay, then? Happy to do that.

His house does have a rubber flap door that you may not be able to see in the pictures. We have electricity running to it and are currently considering which way to heat it for winter: heat lamps or pig mats, which heat lamps,etc. It is easily tall enough to hang something in the ceiling away from his shell. It has a paving stone bottom to help hold in heat, too.

FYI, got the idea from Rodney Pettway. We just put a shed outside Otis' shelter for me to use as a green house in which to grow grass year round. We found grow lights on auction, cheap and I ordered grass seed.

 

[Tom]

Thank you both. Would mulch be a better bedding for the house than hay, then? Happy to do that.

His house does have a rubber flap door that you may not be able to see in the pictures. We have electricity running to it and are currently considering which way to heat it for winter: heat lamps or pig mats, which heat lamps,etc. It is easily tall enough to hang something in the ceiling away from his shell. It has a paving stone bottom to help hold in heat, too.

FYI, got the idea from Rodney Pettway. We just put a shed outside Otis' shelter for me to use as a green house in which to grow grass year round. We found grow lights on auction, cheap and I ordered grass seed.

• Cypress mulch or fine grade orchid bark would work better than hay in that application.
• Door flaps help hold in some heat, but that won't be enough in winter with the corrugated tin walls. It needs to be fully sealed and insulated. Like these: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/ or https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
• Heat lamps should not be used over larger tortoises. They are not effective due to the mass and height of the tortoise, and they tend to damage the top of the carapace.
• Heating a taller shelter is more difficult. Heat rises. Your tortoise will only occupy the bottom 12 inches, so you are heating everything taller than that for no reason.
• Paving stones are too abrasive and over time they will cause the feet to be rubbed raw and damage the plastron. Pavers will also suck the heat right out of your tortoise in winter. The hay or mulch over the pavers will offer some protection, but over time, and as your tortoise gains size and weight, it won't be enough. Plywood over the pavers will solve the abrasion problem, but it won't help enough with the temperature problem.

 

[vladimir]

Good point about the abrasiveness of the paving stones @Tom - I had not thought of that.

 

[Tom]

Good point about the abrasiveness of the paving stones @Tom - I had not thought of that.

It doesn't happen often, but you'll occasionally see a tortoise leaving bloody foot prints on concrete or pavers. It usually doesn't get that bad until the tortoise gets a little bigger and heavier, but they should not generally be housed on that type of surface.

 

[EllieMay]

Your close to my neck of the woods so cypress mulch should be easy and cheap for you to get. I keep that in my outdoor house and my indoor enclosures. It holds the moisture pretty well and I have never had mold yet..

 

[Yvonne G]

Thank you both. Would mulch be a better bedding for the house than hay, then? Happy to do that.

His house does have a rubber flap door that you may not be able to see in the pictures. We have electricity running to it and are currently considering which way to heat it for winter: heat lamps or pig mats, which heat lamps,etc. It is easily tall enough to hang something in the ceiling away from his shell. It has a paving stone bottom to help hold in heat, too.

FYI, got the idea from Rodney Pettway. We just put a shed outside Otis' shelter for me to use as a green house in which to grow grass year round. We found grow lights on auction, cheap and I ordered grass seed.

Be careful with hanging heat. If it's closer than 12 to 15" from the top of his shell, you'll burn the new growth on the shell.

 

[Tortoise Rescue Brenda]

Your close to my neck of the woods so cypress mulch should be easy and cheap for you to get. I keep that in my outdoor house and my indoor enclosures. It holds the moisture pretty well and I have never had mold yet..

Yes, ElliMay, I can definitely get that easily enough. Thank you.

 

[Tortoise Rescue Brenda]

Thank you all for the information. Soooo helpful as always. Looking for a pig mat then. Buying more cypress mulch today.
Would it be better to remove the paving stones all together and put down a mulch-covered plywood floor, mulch-covered plywood on top of the pavers, or just mulch on dirt?

It is so great to be semi-retired so I can go right outside and make changes the day I learn new things. I love retirement!!

 

[EllieMay]

Thank you all for the information. Soooo helpful as always. Looking for a pig mat then. Buying more cypress mulch today.
Would it be better to remove the paving stones all together and put down a mulch-covered plywood floor, mulch-covered plywood on top of the pavers, or just mulch on dirt?

It is so great to be semi-retired so I can go right outside and make changes the day I learn new things. I love retirement!!

I ordered my Kane May off eBay and the price was direct. I also ordered the ink bird thermostat off eBay . Shipping was free and received both in 3 days... it’s works great together for me.

 

[Tortoise Rescue Brenda]

Thank you. I have a thermometer already. I will look into the Kane Mat. Already put mulch in his house instead of hay.

 

[Tom]

Thank you all for the information. Soooo helpful as always. Looking for a pig mat then. Buying more cypress mulch today.
Would it be better to remove the paving stones all together and put down a mulch-covered plywood floor, mulch-covered plywood on top of the pavers, or just mulch on dirt?

It is so great to be semi-retired so I can go right outside and make changes the day I learn new things. I love retirement!!

I think it would be easiest and best to just lay some plywood on top of the pavers and put your mulch on top of that. Then you have a solid floor and a little height to keep it all drier in heavy rain. You'll still need an insulated floor before winter comes.

I dream of retirement... All that time to do tortoise stuff all day... People tell me: "You want to retire already??? You wouldn't know what to do with yourself all day!" HA! Nobody that really knows me says that. They all know EXACTLY what I'd be doing all day if I didn't have to work. At least my work is fun. Today I'm in Georgia telling my own dog to bark at me. He's sleeping on his own king sized bed in our hotel room now. I discovered a new thing today. There is a popsicle place here in Georgia called "Frios" They make all sorts of crazy flavored popsicles. Key Lime, Banana pudding, strawberry lime, mixed berry, piña colada, and my new favorite thing ever: The Fruity Pebbles Popsicle.


It sucks to have to work, but at least my work is pretty fun most of the time.

 

[Tortoise Rescue Brenda]

I think it would be easiest and best to just lay some plywood on top of the pavers and put your mulch on top of that. Then you have a solid floor and a little height to keep it all drier in heavy rain. You'll still need an insulated floor before winter comes.

I dream of retirement... All that time to do tortoise stuff all day... People tell me: "You want to retire already??? You wouldn't know what to do with yourself all day!" HA! Nobody that really knows me says that. They all know EXACTLY what I'd be doing all day if I didn't have to work. At least my work is fun. Today I'm in Georgia telling my own dog to bark at me. He's sleeping on his own king sized bed in our hotel room now. I discovered a new thing today. There is a popsicle place here in Georgia called "Frios" They make all sorts of crazy flavored popsicles. Key Lime, Banana pudding, strawberry lime, mixed berry, piña colada, and my new favorite thing ever: The Fruity Pebbles Popsicle.
View attachment 276175

It sucks to have to work, but at least my work is pretty fun most of the time.

Yum, Tom. That sounds like a flavor I would love. Yeah, I agree, "Won't know what to do with yourself" Are they kidding?! I was told I would be bored. Ha! I teach college classes because I like it. I do presentations all over Texas when I want. I volunteer with a tortoise rescue, learn all I can about tortoises, and avoid irritation from my 2 teenagers by hanging out with my tortoise. Oh, and I am trying to get my children's books published. I'm not bored.

Have fun in Georgia. I drive to Dallas tomorrow to provide a one-day training. Then right back here to put the grow lights in my new greenhouse to grow grass for Otis. Always more to do. Thank you for your ongoing help.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I think it would be easiest and best to just lay some plywood on top of the pavers and put your mulch on top of that. Then you have a solid floor and a little height to keep it all drier in heavy rain. You'll still need an insulated floor before winter comes.

I dream of retirement... All that time to do tortoise stuff all day... People tell me: "You want to retire already??? You wouldn't know what to do with yourself all day!" HA! Nobody that really knows me says that. They all know EXACTLY what I'd be doing all day if I didn't have to work. At least my work is fun. Today I'm in Georgia telling my own dog to bark at me. He's sleeping on his own king sized bed in our hotel room now. I discovered a new thing today. There is a popsicle place here in Georgia called "Frios" They make all sorts of crazy flavored popsicles. Key Lime, Banana pudding, strawberry lime, mixed berry, piña colada, and my new favorite thing ever: The Fruity Pebbles Popsicle.
View attachment 276175

It sucks to have to work, but at least my work is pretty fun most of the time.

Not working (being retired) can suck, too.
Lifes what you make of it.

 

[Tom]

Lifes what you make of it.

Well the first part of mine sucked. It was out of my control. Since I've taken the reigns, it has been a pretty damn fun ride. I intend to keep it that way whether I'm still working or retired!

 

[Tortoise Rescue Brenda]

• Cypress mulch or fine grade orchid bark would work better than hay in that application.
• Door flaps help hold in some heat, but that won't be enough in winter with the corrugated tin walls. It needs to be fully sealed and insulated. Like these: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/ or https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
• Heat lamps should not be used over larger tortoises. They are not effective due to the mass and height of the tortoise, and they tend to damage the top of the carapace.
• Heating a taller shelter is more difficult. Heat rises. Your tortoise will only occupy the bottom 12 inches, so you are heating everything taller than that for no reason.
• Paving stones are too abrasive and over time they will cause the feet to be rubbed raw and damage the plastron. Pavers will also suck the heat right out of your tortoise in winter. The hay or mulch over the pavers will offer some protection, but over time, and as your tortoise gains size and weight, it won't be enough. Plywood over the pavers will solve the abrasion problem, but it won't help enough with the temperature problem.

what are the outside measurements (approximate is fine) of the smaller box, the first one?

 

[vladimir]

what are the outside measurements (approximate is fine) of the smaller box, the first one?

I think the small night boxes are approximately 4x4x2. The roof ends up being 4x4 and the box itself is cut to fit inside the roof.
Tom's the expert though.

 

[Tom]

what are the outside measurements (approximate is fine) of the smaller box, the first one?

What Vlad said...

I make the lid out of half a sheet of plywood. 48x48". Then the box fits inside the 2x4 lip around the edge of the lid, plus I leave a little room for clearance and warping.