More conflicting info about MVBs via FB

[dwright27]

Good morning all,

I was just on one of the RF groups on Facebook and there is a short discussion about MVB usage. People on there are saying a) not to use them and b) to only have UVB on for less than 6 hours per day. (and a normal flood lamp for heat the rest of the time)

I have a Powersun MVB that is on for 12 hours a day and now I'm worried.

They also recommended soaked dry cat food for protein once per week, which seems a little more often than what I've read elsewhere.

Can someone please clarify this information? Thank you!

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

People commonly think of red foot tortoises as being forest dwellers who thus don't need a lot of UVB, but they're actually not forest tortoises and primarily inhabit the savannah-type ecosystems outside of the rainforest. The Vinke and Vetter book has great information on their natural habitats.

Without a good uv probe, I would keep an MVB on for 12-14 hours a day. Indoor UV lighting is typically much, much weaker than outdoors. We're generally lucky to reach early morning level UVB exposure in indoor enclosures, so having them on for long hours is important. Red foots come from the tropics and as such would experience quite high levels of UVB midday (quite a bit higher than those of us at northern latitudes experience). We can't recreate that, but we can do our best and long hours of weak light seems to work.

MVBs are very bright and hot though, so perhaps not ideal for footed tortoises. I've really come to like the long tube T5 fluorescents. Quite good UVB output and lifetime and they don't create just one big bright spot.

If an enclosure - indoor or out - is well designed with lots of shade and hiding places, 12-14 hours of UVB light is just fine. Like outdoors, the option to escape the light is important.

When I've tested a variety of UVB bulbs with my probe, I've been extremely disappointed in how low their output is (unless I want them incredibly close to carapace height, which I don't). Since I'm from a climate with limited summer hours, it's important to me that I get my indoor UVB right. If my winters were only a month long instead of four, I'd probably be fine with running my lights for half the time though.

The frequency of cat food doesn't seem problematic as long as the portion is reasonable. Some people swear by it, but I prefer other protein sources.

 

[dwright27]

Thank you so much Sarah.

I considered getting T5 lighting but the guy at the store said that they often fail and are way too expensive. Do you use CHE's for heat then? A basking bulb? As it stands right now, I need something more than just the CHE to generate enough heat. (Our house isn't kept very warm)

And if I decide on the fluorescent light, I'd have to re-think the design of the enclosure I'm having built: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/redfoot-enclosure-drawing.131638/

I've been meaning to get a UV meter too. Brand recommendations would be welcome, though I doubt I'll be able to afford one for a bit (they're over $100 here in Ontario, from what I can see).

Do you have a link to the book?

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

I switched to T5s based on recommendations here and have been very happy. They are expensive, but the bulbs are known to keep putting out high UVB for much longer than the other standard bulbs so if I have to replace every 1.5 years rather than 6 months it ends up being cheaper. You can also place them higher up than T8s. I couldn't determine replacement time or placement height properly without a UVB probe though. My probe was quite expensive but I think worth it (that's how I found out that most of my original lighting was useless). I even brought my probe to a few Central American forests and savannahs this summer - for fun.

I don't use a CHE at all, actually but instead radiant heat panels. I really like the uniform heat - no desiccating hot spots. They don't work for all enclosure designs, but if you are planning a rebuild some time, I think they're a good option.

This was a very enjoyable and well researched read:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/3899736036/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Your enclosure design is gorgeous, by the way. I'm partial to fluorescents, but other people clearly make spot lights work for them.

 

[dwright27]

I'd love to see some pics of your enclosure, Sarah. Could you post some pics, or direct me to a thread where you've already posted them? I don't know anything about installing the heat panels.

The book looks good but isn't available on Amazon Canada, so I might have to wait.

I'm just glad that I'm not having the new enclosure built for a while, I want to make sure I give him the right specs beforehand!

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Here's a picture I snapped just now - you probably can't really see the lighting or heating though, so it's likely not helpful... I really need to take proper photos.

 

[dwright27]

Beautiful! I can see the light, but not the heating. What plants do you have in there? I don't recognize a lot of them. Are some of them fake? My little dude tramples EVERYTHING.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

There are two fluorescent fixtures - one along the back on the far side and one across the middle perpendicular to it. The RHP is on the side I took the photo from so really impossible to see.

All the plants are real. It's a few kinds of ferns, orchids, and bromeliads, then some pothos and mother-in-law's tongue. There are a few zones that are trampled, but if I plant outside them they seem to be sparred.

 

[dwright27]

Do you have any problems with them being able to see through the glass? I'll have to look into the RHPs...

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

I don't. I know a lot of people do but I've not seen any behaviour to indicate stress or confusion caused by the glass. Plus, I like being able to look in.

Tom has some good posts on his closed chambers with RHPs - that's where I got the idea for my build from.

 

[dwright27]

Okay, I'll have a look at the closed chamber thread(s) again.

 

[dwright27]

Ugh... don't even know where to start here... http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=sr_kk_3?...words=t5+light+fixture&ie=UTF8&qid=1447681236

 

[crimson_lotus]

Just another way of doing things, I keep my UVB lights from 7am to 8:30pm and have both a 150w and 100w CHE for my 4x4 enclosure.

I feed my RF protein once a month, although I've heard from some great keepers on this forum that they feed protein once a week or every 2 weeks. Now that I have an omnivorous turtle, I've been feeding once every 2 weeks since I have nightcrawlers and earthworms. None of these are WRONG, just different.

You don't always have to have the same protein, try some boiled chicken, egg, shrimp, salmon, tuna, sardines, or earthworms.

 

[dwright27]

Yeah the MVB is on for 12 hours a day, the CHE is on 24/7 but ineffective 'cause it's too high up. I'm going to try to get a lamp stand in the next couple of days.

I have given him boiled egg in the past and he liked it. For the earthworms.. can they be from outside? Or should I play it safe and get them from the store? I've got the red wigglers in the tank but they're all hidden in the substrate... and they apparently taste horrible to anything that tries to eat them.

 

[crimson_lotus]

should be fine if you get them from outside. she likes snails, too, if you have any to give your red

 

[dwright27]

Although pretty soon the ground will be frozen so I won't have a choice.. lol

 

[crimson_lotus]

I hear that, it's already pretty chilly here

 

[Redstrike]

Always consider your source... I wouldn't give Facebook much credit with tortoise care.

That being said, I would recommend picking up a copy of Mike Pingleton's Redfoot Manual:
http://www.pingleton.com/redfoot/redfoots.htm

 

[dwright27]

I agree, Facebook advice stresses me out lol. I much prefer this place!

I actually have Pingleton's book. I bought it a long time ago and completely forgot about it. Whoops. lol