Monkey Pics for TerryO

[Tom]

I don't want to start a big ole' argument, but that is not so with the baboons and macaques. She got bit for a reason. Probably because she was a female trying to do dominant things to a male. The males are difficult. I try to avoid them. They can never stop trying to reach the top of the hierarchy. You only have to fight the females once, and from then on you're the boss. Women always have trouble trying to work them no matter what the situation. I only know of one exception to this and she still had problems, but was able to manage them with the help of her nasty German Shepard. She maintained a tentative balance and pitted certain males against certain other males and got away with it. She was an incredible baboon trainer. To this day, I am in awe of her.

New World monkeys suddenly turn on you for no reason. Old World monkeys can be aggressive too, but only IF you give them a reason. Totally different story. Female Old World monkeys, like my beloved baboons, will not ever turn this way on a male handler/trainer, once dominance is established, which is usually in the first couple of weeks. If you are a woman messin' with baboons, you take your life in your hands. Not my rules. Theirs.

 

[terryo]

Of course I'm not starting an argument with you...I have no where near the experience as you do, or the education on these things. I only know of the stories that were told to me by the rescue group, and there were many. I would think that anyone handling these animals would have to be very experienced to even attempt it. Anyway the neighbors took matters into their own hands and burned down her house, after the raid. The last I heard was that most of the primates were so physiologically destroyed from years of living in a small cage and breeding that they couldn't be rehabilitated. I don't know though.....it just seems so logical to me that there is a chance of any wild animal turning of their owners. You have to admit that there's a chance.....right?

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Does Azuma know that you and Dagny are "an item?"

Yeah, I didn't think so!

 

[Tom]

Of course I'm not starting an argument with you...I have no where near the experience as you do, or the education on these things. I only know of the stories that were told to me by the rescue group, and there were many. I would think that anyone handling these animals would have to be very experienced to even attempt it. Anyway the neighbors took matters into their own hands and burned down her house, after the raid. The last I heard was that most of the primates were so physiologically destroyed from years of living in a small cage and breeding that they couldn't be rehabilitated. I don't know though.....it just seems so logical to me that there is a chance of any wild animal turning of their owners. You have to admit that there's a chance.....right?

Anything is physically possible, yes. It is just not in their nature. It would be a totally aberrant behavior for something like that to happen. It makes sense on an evolutionary level. With the strength, speed and weapons that the old world monkeys have, they would literally tear each other apart if there wasn't some serious aggression inhibition within the hierarchy of the troop.

This is why the New World monkeys are so difficult for me to understand. They just GO, without any rhyme or reason.

When I was in South Africa I would go and sit with the troops of wild Chacma baboons. Most people thought I was crazy, but most people don't know baboons. All of the people that I know that know baboons thought it was really cool and totally safe, the way I did it. This is my point. Old World monkeys can be absolutely vicious, but there is always a clear, understandable reason in contrast to the New World monkeys.

If you are interested in animal behavior, there is nothing more fascinating than baboons, in my opinion. Wild Hamadryas baboon society is very similar to Muslim society and wild Olive baboon society is very similar to our western culture. There is a book called "Almost Human", by Shirley Strum. She is sort of the Jane Goodal of baboons. It will change the way you view the world. I've got some other good books too, if you are interested.

 

[Scooter]

I am going to go borrow "Almost Human" from the library. Any other books suggestions would be great!

 

[jlyoncc1]

I have been reading this thread and think the experiences you have had must be incredible. Having no primate experience, could you please explain Old world and new world. Maybe that will help me understand more.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

It's fascinating that these primates share so much of our genetic code, and that their lifestyles can be a reflection of many of our cultural and social mores.

What about that chimpanzee that went beserk and tore that poor woman's face and hands apart? Are chimpanzees "new world" or "old world?"

 

[Tom]

I have been reading this thread and think the experiences you have had must be incredible. Having no primate experience, could you please explain Old world and new world. Maybe that will help me understand more.

The New World is basically all of the Americas. Central, South, North.
The Old World is Africa, Asia and Europe.

 

[terryo]

Animal Planet, March 14th 10p.m. Fatal Attractions ....It's all about keeping wild animals in your home.

 

[Tom]

It's fascinating that these primates share so much of our genetic code, and that their lifestyles can be a reflection of many of our cultural and social mores.

What about that chimpanzee that went beserk and tore that poor woman's face and hands apart? Are chimpanzees "new world" or "old world?"

Apes are a whole 'nother ball game. They are all Old World.
The chimp behavior that has been popping up in the news lately is just a normal part of chimp behavior. In the wild, all the big males will form eerily silent war parties and go looking for members of rival troops that they can out number and over power. Then they rip there parts off and leave them for dead, just like what they've been doing to people lately. It doesn't happen every day in the wild, but it does happen. They are violent, aggressive, dirty animals and I love them. They are fun to be around, but not when they get past about 10 years old. They usually get retired to a sanctuary at 10-12 years old, because they become too dangerous to work around outside of a cage. It is human error at these retirement/sanctuary facilities that leads to these tragic attacks.

This is a large part of the argument for not having them in a captive environment and cessation of captive breeding. I see both sides of this argument, and it has always been a dilemma for me. I was lucky to have spent many years in the company of chimps and orangs, but that time is mostly over for me now. The facility where I used to work with them got out of the ape business a few years ago. At one time we had 35 chimps and 8 orangutans of various ages. I had some amazing experiences with them.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

So...when does your book come out?

Monkey Business.

 

[nickpanzee]

I just found this thread.
I know what you are talking about, Tom. Old World monkeys do have that understandable language. I have learned much of it and I think I do pretty well around them. I'm pretty good with chimps too. I work with the older ones that have been retired to a sanctuary. They came from all different backgrounds. There are a few that I trust (only when they're in a good mood) and there are many that I do not trust because they will try to get you in any way they can whenever they think they have the opportunity.
I really love working with primates.

Nick