Why does it seem to be ok to keep different species of turtles together but not tortoises? Don’t the same arguments apply?
mixing different species together
- Thread starter dolfanjack
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dolfanjack said:
Jack to me, it doesn't matter if your talking turtles OR tortoises. My personal own opinion is to not mix them. IF you are going to mix, then the best situation would be to pair species who actually would occur naturally together in the wild.
Just remember this, every time you add another turtle/tortoise into a mix, you are increasing chances of things going wrong. Not just disease, stress issues, or habitat/diet needs, but personality conflicts, sexual conflicts, ect.., Now adding another species not only will add those individual animal differences, but will also add in the differences between species (such as size, dominance mindsets, aggressive tendencies, ect..,).
It's like a snowball that just keeps growing and growing until it gets out of hand. Sure you can mix and have little or no VISIBLE problems, but is it really worth the chance?
I also think you need to ask, WHY do they mix them together? Is it just because they want to save space, money, and time with creating only one enclosure instead of two? Are they thinking about the animals or their own needs?
dolfanjack said:
Oh now you are just TRYING to stir the pot! Ha Ha.
Its not ok with turtles either, even if it is more common.
I don't know if its right or wrong, but I've always gone with the "different continents" theory. If they live on the same continent, as most of our water turtles do, then its ok for them to be in the same pond at my house. However, if I suddenly was given a turtle from Australia, I would not include it in my pond. (Please forget that I've ever mentioned that I have a Phrynops hillari)
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I have to agree with both Yvonne and Jacqui's reasoning. I also look at it from the viewpoint of different species having different environmental needs and more specifically in some cases, different micro-climates. While two species may have similar requirements, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have the same requirements. Trying to keep one species within the requirements of another species means that you're comprising one or both of their environmental needs.
There are over 20 species of tortoises found on the African continent. Why aren't all of the species found throughout the entire continent? Most probably because they have different environmental requirements that can't be met throughout the entire continent.
There are over 20 species of tortoises found on the African continent. Why aren't all of the species found throughout the entire continent? Most probably because they have different environmental requirements that can't be met throughout the entire continent.
OK...say you get a cb Redfoot (or a humidity loving, forest type of tortoise) and a cb Box Turtle, (also a humidity loving forest turtle). They both are captive bread, they both are the same age...say 1 month...they both love and need humidity, hide under leaf litter most of the day, need low light and warm temp. They are both healthy. Why can't they be raised together until they reach a certain age, or until one is a lot bigger than the other? In the Summer when it's warm out, why can't they co-exist together, even as adults, if they have a large enough area, and they get along?
OK...say you get a cb Redfoot (or a humidity loving, forest type of tortoise) and a cb Box Turtle, (also a humidity loving forest turtle). They both are captive bread, they both are the same age...say 1 month...they both love and need humidity, hide under leaf litter most of the day, need low light and warm temp. They are both healthy. Why can't they be raised together until they reach a certain age, or until one is a lot bigger than the other? In the Summer when it's warm out, why can't they co-exist together, even as adults, if they have a large enough area, and they get along?
I also know people who keep water turtles in the same yard with their boxies.
OK...say you get a cb Redfoot (or a humidity loving, forest type of tortoise) and a cb Box Turtle, (also a humidity loving forest turtle). They both are captive bread, they both are the same age...say 1 month...they both love and need humidity, hide under leaf litter most of the day, need low light and warm temp. They are both healthy. Why can't they be raised together until they reach a certain age, or until one is a lot bigger than the other? In the Summer when it's warm out, why can't they co-exist together, even as adults, if they have a large enough area, and they get along?
I also know people who keep water turtles in the same yard with their boxies.
terryo said:
I am not saying you can't keep them together or that may be they may be okay. Certainly we all know of and have seen plenty of cases where it worked. Then too, haven't we also seen cases where tortoises and turtles were kept totally wrong, fed wrong, no UV or sunlight ever and yet survived and even apparently thrived? These animals are amazing, they adapt, they find a way to survive, that's why they are still around after all these years.
Even at one month of age a redfoot and a box turtle can have a huge size difference. Even if they were the same size, are they completely compatible? One could be starting to do mental bullying, even when the same size, same age, same sex, same species. By making one a different species your adding one more point at which issues could come up. Will they, who knows.
Also like you said Terry, other factors can and will help lower the odds against you. Like I believe I recall you had the example of a box and a RF you used in real life yourself. You lessened the chances of failure by having them in a large enclosure, heavily planted, and lots of hides for example.
Mixing species is almost like the same situation when you get a new male Russian to be roommates with your old male Russian. They may get along great or they may fight. The redfoot might bully the smaller box turtle or not. Just something you take a chance with and do what you can to increase the odds in your favor.
So yes, your box and your Redfoot could stay together for life, but you also have to never let your guard down and believe they always will get along. Just like a dog may get along fine and best best of buds with a tortoise, until that one fateful day when he decided to try out the tortoise as a snack or chew.
Just be observant, do what you can to minimize problems, and keep your fingers crossed. Me, with all the things that can go wrong, with all the things we may be doing wrong with raising our tortoises, for me, it's not worth the added risks. Mixing species is just one place I tend to draw the line with my own animals. Each of us has to make the choice for ourselves.
Jacque, it was Pio and Izzy that lived together for two and a half years, since they were 1 month old. I lost Izzy last Fall when my little niece put her in the flower garden. We never found her. They really were getting along fine up to that point. Pio didn't eat for days when they were separated. He circled his enclosure for days also. It was very sad to see him missing her so much. She never bothered much with him, but Pio followed her around all the time, and went to sleep with her every night in her hide, even though he had his own. It would have been the last Summer that I would have kept them together anyway, as he was getting too big. I have never had a WC animal, all of mine were CB, even the rescue's that I have now. I would never mix species if any were wild caught, but Pio and Izzy were from breeders that I knew.
GBtortoises said:
As tortoise keepers we will never reproduce (unless we actually take them from the wild/backyard) their natural environment. So keeping species from similar habitat is what we need to focus on.
So can't anyone speak to the original question? Why is it ok to mix different species of water turtle?
emysemys said:
Interesting question...it occurs to me that virtrually every zoo I've ever visited does this, though, and not just species from the same continent.
Terry Allan Hall said:
The same reasons apply to equally to mixed tortoise enclosures, mixed turtles enclosure, and mixed with both turtles and tortoises together.
Zoos have a limited amount of space to deal with and visitors/sponsors want as much bang for the inch as they can get. An enclosure with with the correct amount of room per animal is kinda bare isn't it? Add to it animals need and like to hide, which makes more empty, wasted looking space. People want to see animals, not empty enclosures. The zoo is trying to use all the space it can, to give as much variety and color as they can, and to create mini views of what the real scene would look like in the wild.
Zoos are in away like Vets, pet stores, and breeders in our mind. Places that SHOULD know what the animals need and then should lead us by example to the same correct care. Unfortunately, zoos also let us down. They are after all, also a business and money talks loudest of all.
Don't forget that Zoos also have full time professional staffers and vets on hand to try and prevent and or deal with all of the problems associated from mixing species. Preventative and regular worming and fecal checks, injury treatment, loads of hospital quarters off exhibit, etc...Jacqui said:
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