Leopard tortoise housing.

[Tom]

Thanks Tom,

I use a Arcadia tube on a timer for 14hours would this be ok? Or should I change to the MVB

You need three things from your heating and lighting strategy:
1. Heat
2. Light
3. UV

WIthout knowing how much UV your Arcadia bulb is putting out in your enclosure at your mounting distance, I can't make a recommendation for how long to run it. I only run mine for about four hours a day to simulate what happens outside. UV levels are much lower in the morning and late afternoon, but quite high mid day. Because I only run the UV bulbs for 4 hours a day, I run a regular hardware store type florescent bulb on the same timer as the basking bulb so they have light all over the enclosure all day, again, to simulate what happens outside. I run the basking bubl and florescent lights on one timer for about 12-13 hours a day.

For Testudo species that need cooler nights and do well with lower ambient temps, I use only the above stuff with no supplemental heating. For tropical species like leopards, sulcatas and stars I use CHEs set on thermostats to maintain a warm ambient temp 24/7/365.

There are many ways to accomplish the things we need to accomplish as far as providing the correct temperatures and lighting, but these are the main points to consider. Because your tortoise will be inside most of the year, you really need a UV meter to insure that your UV bulbs are meeting your tortoises needs.

 

[David Harmon]

You need three things from your heating and lighting strategy:
1. Heat
2. Light
3. UV

WIthout knowing how much UV your Arcadia bulb is putting out in your enclosure at your mounting distance, I can't make a recommendation for how long to run it. I only run mine for about four hours a day to simulate what happens outside. UV levels are much lower in the morning and late afternoon, but quite high mid day. Because I only run the UV bulbs for 4 hours a day, I run a regular hardware store type florescent bulb on the same timer as the basking bulb so they have light all over the enclosure all day, again, to simulate what happens outside. I run the basking bubl and florescent lights on one timer for about 12-13 hours a day.

For Testudo species that need cooler nights and do well with lower ambient temps, I use only the above stuff with no supplemental heating. For tropical species like leopards, sulcatas and stars I use CHEs set on thermostats to maintain a warm ambient temp 24/7/365.

There are many ways to accomplish the things we need to accomplish as far as providing the correct temperatures and lighting, but these are the main points to consider. Because your tortoise will be inside most of the year, you really need a UV meter to insure that your UV bulbs are meeting your tortoises needs.

My arcadia bulb is new and is 42" 10%+ and is 12" above them, i have a breeding pair of hermanns and horsefields and stars, but with leopards they seem more difficult but am getting there slowly, how did you gain such knowledge bout them? my heating i increased and i separated them but can i update you with there progress over the next few days like if there still sleeping a lot?

David.

 

[Tom]

Arcadia bulbs put out a lot of UV. You might be over doing it. Again, the only way to know if there is enough UV or too much is with a UV meter.

Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. It is very stressful and unnatural for them. A lone female can literally be intimidated to death over time by an assertive male.

Leopards are really no different than stars as far as care. Pretty similar.

I gained this knowledge the old fashioned way. I started keeping them in the early 90's. I followed all sorts of different people's advice and none of it worked. Didn't work for them either... Finally, I had a few epiphanies about the whole thing, did a lot of research, talked to a lot of different people and then started blazing my own trails and observing the results. I've only raised about a hundred leopards, but I've studied what other people are doing and what results they get all over the world. I've learned a lot, but there will always be more to learn. Some questions are still unanswered.

 

[David Harmon]

Arcadia bulbs put out a lot of UV. You might be over doing it. Again, the only way to know if there is enough UV or too much is with a UV meter.

Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. It is very stressful and unnatural for them. A lone female can literally be intimidated to death over time by an assertive male.

Leopards are really no different than stars as far as care. Pretty similar.

I gained this knowledge the old fashioned way. I started keeping them in the early 90's. I followed all sorts of different people's advice and none of it worked. Didn't work for them either... Finally, I had a few epiphanies about the whole thing, did a lot of research, talked to a lot of different people and then started blazing my own trails and observing the results. I've only raised about a hundred leopards, but I've studied what other people are doing and what results they get all over the world. I've learned a lot, but there will always be more to learn. Some questions are still unanswered.

Hi Tom sorry for the late reply been working, quick message saying thanks for the help and been very helpful, the one with the eyes closed has been outside all day in the sun with no issue with the eyes even when it bumped into the other tortoise they were eating together and then going off together to roam in the garden. I've attached a few pics so am thinking it could be my uv now. But there separated in the vivariums at the moment.

 

[David Harmon]

Arcadia bulbs put out a lot of UV. You might be over doing it. Again, the only way to know if there is enough UV or too much is with a UV meter.

Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. It is very stressful and unnatural for them. A lone female can literally be intimidated to death over time by an assertive male.

Leopards are really no different than stars as far as care. Pretty similar.

I gained this knowledge the old fashioned way. I started keeping them in the early 90's. I followed all sorts of different people's advice and none of it worked. Didn't work for them either... Finally, I had a few epiphanies about the whole thing, did a lot of research, talked to a lot of different people and then started blazing my own trails and observing the results. I've only raised about a hundred leopards, but I've studied what other people are doing and what results they get all over the world. I've learned a lot, but there will always be more to learn. Some questions are still unanswered.

Hi Tom,

Sorry to be a pain, just wanted to update you really the little leopards have been outside as in the UK its sunny at 24c so there actually eating the grass which is a good sign, but even though the tortoise is outside it still tends to be sleeping and just have the eyes closed and thats outside in the garden. any more ideas? sorry to be a pain just want the best possible advice.

 

[Tom]

Lets back track a bit... Where did you get these guys and how were they started? Most of the tortoise world is still under the mistaken idea that these are a "desert" species and need hot dry conditions. Totally wrong. As a result they are usually started wayyyyyyy too dry and dehydrated in their first few weeks and months.

We are working so hard to examine your techniques and routine, while everything you are doing may have nothing to do with the issue. Read this for more explanation: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

 

[David Harmon]

Lets back track a bit... Where did you get these guys and how were they started? Most of the tortoise world is still under the mistaken idea that these are a "desert" species and need hot dry conditions. Totally wrong. As a result they are usually started wayyyyyyy too dry and dehydrated in their first few weeks and months.

We are working so hard to examine your techniques and routine, while everything you are doing may have nothing to do with the issue. Read this for more explanation: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

I got the tortoises from a reptile shop who had them in a vivarium with humidity at 70% and they were soaked everyday according to the shop. At the moment I bath them each day in Lukewarm water every morning and they have fresh water all the time. And for myself am using coco coir with humidity 80% I have read your sheet which you have attached as well.

 

[Tom]

I got the tortoises from a reptile shop who had them in a vivarium with humidity at 70% and they were soaked everyday according to the shop. At the moment I bath them each day in Lukewarm water every morning and they have fresh water all the time. And for myself am using coco coir with humidity 80% I have read your sheet which you have attached as well.

Sounds like the shop had it right, but that is very unusual. What about the breeder before the shop got them?

 

[David Harmon]

Sounds like the shop had it right, but that is very unusual. What about the breeder before the shop got them?

Hi Tom,

I have just called him and he said he was the breeder but i asked could i see his breeding pair and he said no, so maybe he isn't being truthful, plus he used a coil bulb for the lighting and grass pellets, so far mine have been changed to the MVB and i use coco coir and orchid bark so maybe mine just need a little time to adapt? there eating and drinking and soaking in there dishes, also there shells are nice and hard and no soft parts. would you class 6months as still babies (stupid question sorry) as i only put them outside when its 24c plus and sunny or little cloudy with sun but only for a few hours.

 

[Lyn W]

Hi Tom,

I have just called him and he said he was the breeder but i asked could i see his breeding pair and he said no, so maybe he isn't being truthful, plus he used a coil bulb for the lighting and grass pellets, so far mine have been changed to the MVB and i use coco coir and orchid bark so maybe mine just need a little time to adapt? there eating and drinking and soaking in there dishes, also there shells are nice and hard and no soft parts. would you class 6months as still babies (stupid question sorry) as i only put them outside when its 24c plus and sunny or little cloudy with sun but only for a few hours.

Hi David - I hope its nothing serious but lights apart - just wondering if it would be worth bathing the eyes with a little saline solution - the sort contact lens wearers use - to see if its some sort of eye problem. Or maybe visit the vet to get some soothing eye cream.

 

[David Harmon]

Hi David - I hope its nothing serious but lights apart - just wondering if it would be worth bathing the eyes with a little saline solution - the sort contact lens wearers use - to see if its some sort of eye problem. Or maybe visit the vet to get some soothing eye cream.

I can't see it being serious as there appetite is amazing, i think its just the lighting and finding the balance to which the tortoise prefers and them its all great then, i also soaked the readigrass like you said so they have a better diet than me and are spoilt! Has the weather improved in south wales?

David.

 

[Lyn W]

I can't see it being serious as there appetite is amazing, i think its just the lighting and finding the balance to which the tortoise prefers and them its all great then, i also soaked the readigrass like you said so they have a better diet than me and are spoilt! Has the weather improved in south wales?

David.

Not too bad today - a bit cloudy and gust, but a fair bit of sun too. I have made Lola a sun room so he can get out of the wind. I know the uv rays won't penetrate the plexiglass but he still has plenty of sunny outdoor space too.

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,

I have just called him and he said he was the breeder but i asked could i see his breeding pair and he said no, so maybe he isn't being truthful, plus he used a coil bulb for the lighting and grass pellets, so far mine have been changed to the MVB and i use coco coir and orchid bark so maybe mine just need a little time to adapt? there eating and drinking and soaking in there dishes, also there shells are nice and hard and no soft parts. would you class 6months as still babies (stupid question sorry) as i only put them outside when its 24c plus and sunny or little cloudy with sun but only for a few hours.

I would consider 6 months still a baby. What do they weigh?

You might be dealing with some eye damage from the coil bulb used in the shop. Hopefully it will heal in time.

Living as a pair is not helping anything.

Are you still soaking them in addition to them self soaking in their bowls?

I would not put them outside for more than an hour or two until they are a little bigger.

 

[David Harmon]

I would consider 6 months still a baby. What do they weigh?

You might be dealing with some eye damage from the coil bulb used in the shop. Hopefully it will heal in time.

Living as a pair is not helping anything.

Are you still soaking them in addition to them self soaking in their bowls?

I would not put them outside for more than an hour or two until they are a little bigger.

I have them separated at the moment now, and they soak in a separate bowl and they go in there water dishes all the time to drink or just walk through, and yes am soaking them as well. They weigh 266 and 284 respectively is that a ok weigh.

 

[Tom]

I have them separated at the moment now, and they soak in a separate bowl and they go in there water dishes all the time to drink or just walk through, and yes am soaking them as well. They weigh 266 and 284 respectively is that a ok weigh.

266 and 284? That's pretty big for 6 months. Are you sure of their age? If they are that size at six months, you have no worries.

 

[David Harmon]

266 and 284? That's pretty big for 6 months. Are you sure of their age? If they are that size at six months, you have no worries.

yeah thats the age he said they were and the documents did state 6 months, and i weigh them each week. so the eyes should i still worry?

 

[Tom]

yeah thats the age he said they were and the documents did state 6 months, and i weigh them each week. so the eyes should i still worry?

I would keep an eye out, but not worry.

 

[David Harmon]

I would keep an eye out, but not worry.

Ok, thanks Tom for the help, i will keep a check on the eye situation.

 

[David Harmon]

Ok, thanks Tom for the help, i will keep a check on the eye situation.

hi Tom,

Just to let you know, the tortoise has been waking now natural, I think it liked a sleep till 9am then goes back to sleep at 1ish then back away at 4pm for more food, so all appears ok, just notice my humidity went to 88 as i change the coco coir, will the humidity at 88 be ok or to high?