Leopard Tortoise advice

[bethanyrose]

Hi everyone, sorry for the super long message but I could really do with some help and advice!



This is Topsy my gorgeous 2 year old Leopard Tortoise. She was given to me a couple of months ago as her previous owner didn't want her, and I'm a total sucker for taking in rescue animals. I've been researching and researching on how to get her enclosure the best it can be and how to look after her properly, but there is so much conflicting information I'm having a hard time knowing what to trust! I've heard so much about beginner mistakes that I'm so scared I'm doing things wrong and am going to kill her or something!

My main question is would you set up a tortoise table or a vivarium for her? She's currently in a open topped table type enclosure because that seemed to be the general consensus, but I live in the UK and the temperature has been fluctuating recently, and I'm not sure how to keep the temperature and humidity constant if she isn't in a viv? If she would be better in a nice big vivarium then I will get one asap for her. She's got orchid bark substrate, a water tray bath, some hides, and cuttlebone for calcium. Her heat/uv light is an Arcadia one and she also has a heat mat on the wall connected to a thermostat which is turned up to full at the moment as she has a bubbly nose and I wasn't sure if it could be temperature related or something else! The heat and uv lamp is on for around 12 hours a day and the heat mat is on the thermostat constantly. Her temps are around 25 degrees Celsius at the cooler end and above 30 degrees Celsius under the lamp in the warmer end, then drops into the mid-high twenties at night when the uv/heat lamp is off. She has also been outside in the garden a lot recently with the really warm weather so has been getting lots of natural UV and food. I also soak her every day so she can drink if she wants to.



She's had a bit of a bubbly nose these last few days, and it's been worrying me as I know leopards are supposed to be prone to it. I took her to the vet but I'm not sure how reliable they are and whether I should try somewhere else. She has had a grass blade up her nose recently that I removed with tweezers so they said that could be the cause, or it could be the sudden drop in temperature we've had after such a hot summer with temps pretty much around 30 degrees Celsius all the time, or possibly the substrate. She has orchid bark currently, but the vet said that's no good and I should have a sand and soil mix, but I've read on here that's a really bad plan so now I'm confused. They asked me to bring her in for xrays so she ended up there for nearly a whole day, I paid loads and they just said her lungs are clear which is good, and the bubbly nose would clear up by itself. Or if it didn't, to bring her back and they would put her under a general and look in her mouth to see if they could see anything? I'm not really keen for her to have anaesthetic unless it's absolutely necessary so that plan worried me, especially as it hasn't cleared up fully yet. I was assuming that she may need antibiotics to treat it judging by what I've read before and other tort owners I've spoken to, but not Baytril as many leopards can be allergic, but obviously they said not.

If anyone can offer me any advice about any of my situation, it would be much appreciated, I've not got unlimited funds but whatever she needs I will just have to get somehow because she is such a special little character and I just want what is best for her! If I've missed anything that you need to know, just ask!

Thanks!
Beth and Topsy

 

[Minority2]

Read the links provided. Use them as a guideline on basic Leopard care.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/leopard-tortoise-care-sheet.63792/

1. The enclosure is too small. Vivariums are decent enclosures but large glass vivariums are costly. Your 2 year old should have at least a 6-8 L x 2.5-4 W (foot) enclosure.
2. Your current temperatures are on the low side. I believe this is because of your open enclosure setup. Covering the enclosure with a top (and side areas) will help keep humidity and temperature levels from fluctuating. Raise your enclosure temperatures by 3 Celsius for the time being. Again, I strongly suggest replacing that tiny enclosure as soon as you can.
3. Find a new vet, a more up to date exotics vet.

 

[bethanyrose]

Hiya, thanks so much for your reply and those links, I have read both of those, the only thing I was wondering about was from what ages are considered as babies, as some of them mention babies in particular. I'm guessing Topsy isn't classed as a baby any more? Probably more a juvenile? I've been wanting to upgrade her to a bigger enclosure but I wasn't sure what to invest in for her and it's been so sunny since I've had her, she's been outside for the majority of the time, just coming in to sleep really. Would you say a 6-8 foot vivarium might be the best plan then if I can find a decent one? For now I will try and insulate it a bit better to keep the temperatures up a bit higher, and get a replacement as soon as I can get one delivered! I will definitely look for a new vet also, this one was supposed to be an exotics specialist too, which is just even more confusing. Thankyou so much for your help, I just want what's best for her, I want to get everything exactly perfect so she can grow up big and healthy!

Beth

 

[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome.
I see you are in Leics Bethany where there is a busy tortoise club. http://www.britishcheloniagroup.org.uk/bcg-info/regions
I think they meet in Blaby and another place I can't recall at the moment. You could ring them to ask which vets they recommend for torts and ask their advice, but when I first had my leopard, this forum was the best place for up to date information so in the event of conflicting info I would follow advice from here before other sources.
I think the BATK (based in Leamington Spa) has a list of recommended tort vets in UK too.

I am in Wales and also have a Leopard. He is over a foot long now so too big for a viv or table and he has his own adapted room.
His temp in his hide rarely falls below 90'F and his basking spot under his mvb is 106'F. He does not go out unless ground temps are at least 70'F with no chilly breezes.
I've not used a heat mat at all but I use a che at night run that through a thermostat so that the temps remain even, the radiator in the room is on 24/7 (except when we had those really high temps a couple of weeks ago).
If you don't already have one try to get a digital temp gun to spot check the temps at tort level.
Read the links Minority2 gave you they will tell you all about diet, temps, humidity etc.
The Enclosures thread has lots of good ideas for indoor enclosures, and the Beginners Mistakes thread you mentioned is good too.
If you haven't already found it www.thetortoisetable.org.uk is a good guide to safe tort food.
Hope that helps.

 

[Lyn W]

Hiya, thanks so much for your reply and those links, I have read both of those, the only thing I was wondering about was from what ages are considered as babies, as some of them mention babies in particular. I'm guessing Topsy isn't classed as a baby any more? Probably more a juvenile? I've been wanting to upgrade her to a bigger enclosure but I wasn't sure what to invest in for her and it's been so sunny since I've had her, she's been outside for the majority of the time, just coming in to sleep really. Would you say a 6-8 foot vivarium might be the best plan then if I can find a decent one? For now I will try and insulate it a bit better to keep the temperatures up a bit higher, and get a replacement as soon as I can get one delivered! I will definitely look for a new vet also, this one was supposed to be an exotics specialist too, which is just even more confusing. Thankyou so much for your help, I just want what's best for her, I want to get everything exactly perfect so she can grow up big and healthy!

Beth

How big is she?
Also - I can't tell how open your enclosure is from the pics but Wickes do some massive white, rigid plastic sheets (to protect floors during work I think) and they are only about £3 each. I'm wondering if you could use those to enclose the sides if needed.

 

[Lyn W]

https://www.wickes.co.uk/search?text=proplex+surface+protection
Link for the sheets.

 

[Minority2]

Heating mats, depending on the type, can actually be hazardous to your tortoise's shell. Make sure to either affix the device out the tortoise's reach and or purchase ones that are safe when touched.

 

[Tom]

1. Sand should never be part of the substrate for any tortoise. FInd a new vet.
2. The bubbles are the start of a respiratory infection. If you up the heat right now you might be able to stop and cure it without harsh drugs. Keep the entire enclosure 30 or higher for two weeks after the symptoms disappear. Soak daily with this higher heat.
3. It is doubtful that the coolest spot in that open topped enclosure is staying mid 20s at night in a normal house. This is likely the cause of the RI.
4. There is no way to maintain the correct conditions in an open topped enclosure, but any store bough viv will be too small. The solution is to build your own large closed chamber or have one built for you.
5. There is no time frame when they stop benefiting from warm humid conditions. Age and size doesn't matter.
6. Mercury vapor bulbs contribute to pyramiding. I wouldn't use one. Best to get UV from a long tube type florescent. The newer HO types work very well.
7. I would not use a heat mat for a tortoise in this situation. For maintaining ambient heat, day or night, I would use a radiant heat panel or a couple of CHEs set on a thermostat.

 

[bethanyrose]

Thankyou so much for all your replies, it's been so helpful, I'm so grateful to you all! I'm so determined to get on top of this and make it right for her, she was an unexpected arrival so I didn't have time to prepare but she's such a character I can't imagine not having her around now.

I managed to find a 6 foot vivarium which should hopefully be getting delivered in the next couple of days. I'm going to lose the heat mat and swap to a ceramic heat emitter to use with the thermostat. I'm also swapping to a tube uv light instead of the mercury vapour bulb, so hopefully those are all good steps forward. I have a digital temperature gun so am obsessedly checking temperatures at the moment and am going to try and maintain them over 30 for the next few weeks as suggested so she hopefully won't need any antibiotics or anything. I'm thinking I might also swap substrate to coco coir also as I've heard it retains moisture better so might help with the humidity? I spray the orchid bark substrate a couple of times a day but it always seems to dry out really fast.


Lyn, thankyou for the link to that society, I will definitely become a member of that, it looks like a great source of information! I had already found the tortoise table for food and had a look through it but I'm glad you've mentioned it because I feel more like I can definitely trust it and it's reliable. Topsy's carapace shell length is currently about 15 cm, she's grown a couple of cm while I've had her and put on a lot of weight too.

From the limited information I had from her previous owner, she didn't really know anything about torts, wasn't aware what species she was or that she was going to grow big, and just had her in a fishtank with little stones on the floor. I think she was being fed mostly salad too, so not the best! She just really deserves to have the best life I can give her after that start.

 

[Lyn W]

Thankyou so much for all your replies, it's been so helpful, I'm so grateful to you all! I'm so determined to get on top of this and make it right for her, she was an unexpected arrival so I didn't have time to prepare but she's such a character I can't imagine not having her around now.

I managed to find a 6 foot vivarium which should hopefully be getting delivered in the next couple of days. I'm going to lose the heat mat and swap to a ceramic heat emitter to use with the thermostat. I'm also swapping to a tube uv light instead of the mercury vapour bulb, so hopefully those are all good steps forward. I have a digital temperature gun so am obsessedly checking temperatures at the moment and am going to try and maintain them over 30 for the next few weeks as suggested so she hopefully won't need any antibiotics or anything. I'm thinking I might also swap substrate to coco coir also as I've heard it retains moisture better so might help with the humidity? I spray the orchid bark substrate a couple of times a day but it always seems to dry out really fast.


Lyn, thankyou for the link to that society, I will definitely become a member of that, it looks like a great source of information! I had already found the tortoise table for food and had a look through it but I'm glad you've mentioned it because I feel more like I can definitely trust it and it's reliable. Topsy's carapace shell length is currently about 15 cm, she's grown a couple of cm while I've had her and put on a lot of weight too.

From the limited information I had from her previous owner, she didn't really know anything about torts, wasn't aware what species she was or that she was going to grow big, and just had her in a fishtank with little stones on the floor. I think she was being fed mostly salad too, so not the best! She just really deserves to have the best life I can give her after that start.

I've never had a viv myself but you may find that while it is long it could be too narrow. Torts need a large area to roam.
Tom's idea of building your own would be the best and you'll find plenty of isea for that in the Enclosures thread.

 

[Yvonne G]

Try to figure out a way to cover your enclosure. Here's what I did recently to house a desert tortoise hatchling that I found:



Your tortoise is bigger, so you'll need a bigger tub. Iris makes a nice one, but I don't know if it's available in the UK:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/IRIS-Tree-Storage-USA-Inc/dp/B000YUUOH0

It will probably become available closer to Christmas. It's about 4' long and quite a nice size for a young leopard tortoise.

Then you cut out spaces where the lights will shine through, and line the holes with kitchen foil.

 

[Markw84]

I'm thinking I might also swap substrate to coco coir also as I've heard it retains moisture better so might help with the humidity? I spray the orchid bark substrate a couple of times a day but it always seems to dry out really fast.

Orchid bark is the best substrate for a tortoise like yours. I would not change to coco coir. The coco coir will get too messy. Orchid bark also holds moisture extremely well and the top layer will dry out a bit while still quite moist below and keeping the humidity up in a closed enclosure. I use orchid bark in all my enclosures.