Larger THB "ramming" smaller THB(?)

[TanknTurbo]

My husband and I have two 2.5 year old THB we have had since hatchlings...at least we think they are THB. They were supposed to be temp sexed male and female, but over time it has become apparent they are both males. They are not related, but were the same size when we got them although one (come to be known as Tank), was a more "olive" color w/ yellow, while Turbo was more of the black and yellow.

Our larger male, Tank, is about 8 inches measuring from the plastron, and has very classic THB characteristics and from what I've read I am pretty confident he is a THB. Our other male, Turbo, is only about 3 inches measuring from the plastron and is much darker in appearance, and I think there is a chance he is a THH as they vary so greatly in coloring and size.

Our concern is that in the last few months, Tank has developed the mean habit of "ramming" little Turbo. He also occasionally mounts Turbo but luckily Turbo usually just runs into his little fort that Tank can't fit in.

They are housed together in a relatively large enclosure- a 175 gallon tank that is 6 feet long and about 20 inches wide.

Is there any chance 2 males can be housed together after this behavior begins? We know we'll probably have to separate them in the near future, but in the meantime we were hoping to get any kind of feedback from other Hermann's lovers that have experienced the same issue.

Thank you for your time,

Tank & Turbo's Mom

*The picture attached is from 10 months ago when they were in their transitional enclosure. Tank is about an inch bigger or so, while Turbo is still the same size more or less. Their new substrate is a mix of sand, soil, and reptibark and seems to be working out pretty well.

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And here is their pic.

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And a few baby pics of them both.

 

[Yvonne G]

Looks like maybe at one time they were close to each other in size?? That maybe means that the larger one is getting more than his share of the food. Besides the bullying that you see, there is also what I call "mental bullying." You can't see it happening, but the larger tortoise tells the smaller one to get out of his territory and away from his food. It would be my suggestion to get them into a bigger habitat and be sure to have plenty of sight barriers in it where the smaller tort can get out of the larger tort's sight. Also, feed them in two different places, with the smaller tortoise out of the larger tortoise's sight.

Yvonne

 

[egyptiandan]

Hi,
Welcome to the forum

First off you don't have Hermanns tortoises, you have 2 Greek tortoises, Testudo graeca ibera. Thats what subspecies they look like without seeing plastron pictures.
You I'm afraid need to seperate them. Like Yvonne said the larger one is bullying the smaller one and thats why he's not growing.

Danny

 

[TanknTurbo]

Hmm...unfortunately I can't find my camera to take plastron pics, but what gives you the impression they're Greek's? They were purchased as Hermann's from turtlesale.com...and from the research I've done and other pics I've seen of Hermann's they look just like them.

5 minutes later...
Now that I've done a bit more research I've found a few pics of Greeks and you're right- they do look like Greek's as well. Is there a sure fire way to distinguish them?

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes

Greek tortoises have spurs on their thighs and no spur on the end of their tail.
Hermanns tortoises have a spur on the end of their tail and no spurs on their thighs.

Danny

 

[TanknTurbo]

Well my goodness...these guys definitely have spurs on their thighs, but none on their tail! We've got some Greeks! Interesting...I purchased a female and male Hermann's and instead received 2 male Greeks!

Thanks so much for your keen eye. I'll follow up with some investigation of my own, but in the meantime are there any major dietary or other differences I should be aware of?

 

[egyptiandan]

No diet and general care are the same as for Hermanns.

Danny

 

[TanknTurbo]

Thanks again. I'll post pictures of their plastron to follow up as soon as I can.