Kinixys zombensis zombensis versus K.Z.Zuelensis

[tortadise]

It has been extremely difficult finding any clear diversification of Kinixys Zombensis(a full species) and it's sub species Kinixys zombensis Zuelensis. I was wondering if anyone out there has any olderdocumentation of South African journals or could lead me to a PDF on these species(sub species). All my South African contacts know the differences but can't substantiate an exact which one is which. Most of them run sanctuaries for abandoned or confiscated animals and do little field work. I know Zuelensis was classified a Sub species in 1930s. They're clearly is a distinct difference in size of the sub species K.Z.Zuelensis against K.Z.Zombensis.

Perhaps it's time to quit going to central and South America and do a eastern to South African field hearing trip.

These are the ones I have.
Both represent zombensis
Male


Female(don't have a current plastron shot of her)

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Kelly, off the top of my head zuluensis was created by Hewitt, who had also designated some 30+ subspecies of common tent tortoises. At best they are the differences between populations divided by mountain range or rivers etc. The last specialist group pub did not indicate subspecies of zombensis other than to suggest that those found on Madagascar may be different, so they are called dom... something.

I'll look, I have a great deal of English lit on Kinixys. Can't help much with the German or French. That most recent specialist group pub does also show range areas, as well as the nomenclatural history for all taxa. It would be a good first place to look.

McCord was a co-author on an illustrated key to Kinixys and it's pretty good, but now a bit dated due to those specialist group pubs. That new guide by Dave M. is sparse on primary info in regards to range and identity of populations. As you suggest, it's going to take on the ground field work.

That Big girl you have is distorted from captive care. I don't think you'd find many like that in-situ.

I've not found any images of the group I transfered to the Tewksbury Herpetology Institute/Tewksbury Institute of Herpetology. They seem to be lost to follow-up as well. T

 

[tortadise]

Kelly, off the top of my head zuluensis was created by Hewitt, who had also designated some 30+ subspecies of common tent tortoises. At best they are the differences between populations divided by mountain range or rivers etc. The last specialist group pub did not indicate subspecies of zombensis other than to suggest that those found on Madagascar may be different, so they are called dom... something.

I'll look, I have a great deal of English lit on Kinixys. Can't help much with the German or French. That most recent specialist group pub does also show range areas, as well as the nomenclatural history for all taxa. It would be a good first place to look.

McCord was a co-author on an illustrated key to Kinixys and it's pretty good, but now a bit dated due to those specialist group pubs. That new guide by Dave M. is sparse on primary info in regards to range and identity of populations. As you suggest, it's going to take on the ground field work.

That Big girl you have is distorted from captive care. I don't think you'd find many like that in-situ.

I've not found any images of the group I transfered to the Tewksbury Herpetology Institute/Tewksbury Institute of Herpetology. They seem to be lost to follow-up as well. T

I figured you would have some info somewhere. I agree the big female is definitely a husbandry issue. I agree te newly published kinixys guide is decent. But conflicts with many reach papers I have read. I seem to prefer outdated field journals. Back then it was a true science and not a regurgitated editing publish paper. Kinixys domergyuei is the Malagasy species. In situ is for sure on the list to be done. Next year will be Western Africa first however. Working on a release program in situ for nogyuei and sulcata. So much to be done.

 

[turtlemanfla88]

Kelly,
Just a suggestion have you been in contact with the Turtle Survival Alliance or Russ Gurley from the Turtle and Tortoise Presevation Group. I know the TSA just had an article in their 2014 book that I just got in the mail this week.

 

[turtlemanfla88]

Kelly,
contact: David Mifsud ,Kinixys Conservation Program Chair, [email protected]
I looked it up for you. Also, I am not sure if you are familiar with the German publication RADIATA (english edition)
Andreas S. Hennig. email: [email protected]
phone and fax:++49-(0)341-9128648
I hope this helps.

 

[tortadise]

I am very familiar with TSA. I've contacted some more contacts in South Africa and Europe that should be able to possibly assist with new diverse publications of actual field represented diversities.

 

[tortadise]

Kelly,
contact: David Mifsud ,Kinixys Conservation Program Chair, [email protected]
I looked it up for you. Also, I am not sure if you are familiar with the German publication RADIATA (english edition)
Andreas S. Hennig. email: [email protected]
phone and fax:++49-(0)341-9128648
I hope this helps.

I have spoken with him before plenty of times.

 

[turtlemanfla88]

Kelly,
That is whats great about this forum we all help each other. What other species of Kinixys do you work with?.
Do you work with russians?.

 

[tortadise]

I use to work with Russians. But now I just adopt them out to suitable homes. Work with lobatsiana,Erosa, homeana, spekii, nogyuei, Belliana(will probably never find a female though) zombensis, and hopefully soon some natalensis(South Africa is difficult to deal with on these)

 

[turtlemanfla88]

I work with Russians stopped for awhile now trying build up a herd like i used to have 2.14. Also, I am still trying to identify the four different sub-species. That is one thing that really bugs me how some people do not care about keeping animals pure and just let them all breed together.
I work with Erosa,Homeana( mostly males),Spekii, and some ancient Belliana(male). I have breed and hatched Foresti tortoises. I am working with them and some Leopard tortoises( Babcocki) not (Pardalis Pardalis) I wish. I have not seen them in at least 15 years.

 

[tortadise]

I work with Russians stopped for awhile now trying build up a herd like i used to have 2.14. Also, I am still trying to identify the four different sub-species. That is one thing that really bugs me how some people do not care about keeping animals pure and just let them all breed together.
I work with Erosa,Homeana( mostly males),Spekii, and some ancient Belliana(male). I have breed and hatched Foresti tortoises. I am working with them and some Leopard tortoises( Babcocki) not (Pardalis Pardalis) I wish. I have not seen them in at least 15 years.

Pardalis are around . Would love to see a pic of that Belliana. Is it nogyuei or Belliana , do you know?

 

[FLINTUS]

I seem to remember an article a while back, I think in German, about this subject, and they believed that zulensis should be a whole species. Can't remember anything about the name of it though. I'll be in rural western Kenya doing a volunteering project next summer so I'll see if I can get some pics of KBB, and zombensis, although does their range stretch to far west Kenya?