Kansas Sulcata

[cassidy.dixon]

Hello,
This is our new family member. We just adopted him Friday and he is 4 years old. (we are told from facebook page its a boy, opinion please) He was pretty well taken care of as far as calcium, vitamins, diet and what not. The picture below of the younger tort is Tucker. We got him as 4 month old hatchling. He is now 12 months old and very healthy (29 oz)



Anyway, I have a few questions about this big guy.... I know the new surroundings are going to be a shock to him and he will have to get used to us. He has been in his little house for almost 24 hours and just covers himself with hay and stays all tucked in. I haven't seen him move other than breathing the entire time. I forced him out yesterday and got him to eat a little bit. He wandered around my shop digging in every corner until I picked him up and put him by his house door. He went right in covered up and hasn't moved since.

His house is 8' Long, 3' tall, and 2' wide.... hay all over the floor deep enough for him to cover up. I have a red heat lamp on one end running the entire time. His shell temp was 82 and the floor temp was 75 under the hay. If I turn the MVB on for light he tries to dig further into the floor and wall of house. If I turn it back off he stops and doesn't move.....

Should I just be patient and let him come out on his own or should I make him come out and eat and possibly a soak?

 

[lismar79]

It will take him some time to get use to the new place, I would switch the red light out for a ceramic heat emitter bulb or called a che and keep offering food and water.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum! I love the happy faces on your boys. Also, I think your new tortoise is female. Please be aware that two tortoises is not a good combination. Three or more seems to work ok, but two doesn't. They are territorial and like to be the only tortoise in the territory. Besides that, there's quite a size discrepancy.

One way to get your new tortoise to accept her new territory quicker is to stop allowing her out of the habitat. Tortoises need their own habitat, a place where they know they can find their food, basking spot, hiding place, etc. It's awfully cold out on the bare floor, and besides that, once you've allowed a tortoise to realize there's more to the world than their four walls, they're not satisfied anymore to stay inside their four walls. I will be difficult to keep this large tortoise indoors over the winter. They require a lot of roaming room, at the same time the need to be kept warm. Good luck. She's a beauty!

 

[cassidy.dixon]

Yes I do not keep them together nor do I plan to. The small one has his own enclosure. My plan was for the big one to free roam my shop 15X21 and his house I built is in the corner. This is the house he is hiding in. I got him to come out this morning by offering a chunk of romaine. He stayed out for a few but did the same thing. he was looking for a corner to hide in. I would trade the red bulb for a CHE but the largest one I have is 100 watt and I would have to have it to close to him. I should also add, one end of his house has a plywood floor 3.5" off the concrete. When he went back in the house he is now sleeping on the floor instead of the concrete. I also have two water dishes, one in his house and one outside the door. ( he has not tried to drink)

 

[cassidy.dixon]

I should also add, my shop is kept at least 80 at all times. ( I practically live out here other than sleep and work)

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

The way you are planning on keeping this tortoise is not going to work. They are a tropical species and walking around on a cold concrete floor will not work well for them.

Also, over head heat bulbs don't work well for large tortoises. They slow burn the tops of their carapaces, and don't warm the rest of the tortoise enough.

Also, colored bulbs should not be used. Tortoises have better color vision than we do, so if you can see it, they can see it better. They need white light during the day and darkness at night. Living in an al red world is not good for them.

These might help:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[cassidy.dixon]

Conditions when I picked it up were- single car garage, no central heat. 8'X8' box in center of floor with 18" sides. All that was in the box was hay spread all over and the heat, uv lights in a corner. The garage had one of those kerosene jet heaters keeping it warm. This is where he lived since a hatchling and roamed the yard in the summer.

I understand the humidity levels and such (look at my hatchling)

I just need to come up with a humid hide for this big guy as that is how I raise my hatchling. He is in this shop 24 hrs a day and sleeps in a coco coir floored humid hide.

This stuff will all be perfected this weekend as I didn't want to build to much without even seeing him and didn't want to waste my time. I am going to get it dark for him tomorrow in there.

Should I force the MVB bulb on him even if he tried to dig away from him or leave it dark and let him come out if he wants light?

Any suggestions for heat other than CHE? If heat lamp is no good how could a CHE be any better? Should I do a mat? I have heard bad things about them... everyone has different opinions I know.


What do you use for heat for this big of a guy? How about Humidity?? how do you keep it up for them?

 

[cassidy.dixon]

floor temperature on average is 79 in entire shop. After this heat lamp running in his house for a few days, the floor is now 82 in the coolest spot. That still to cold for him to walk around on?

 

[Big Charlie]

Conditions when I picked it up were- single car garage, no central heat. 8'X8' box in center of floor with 18" sides. All that was in the box was hay spread all over and the heat, uv lights in a corner. The garage had one of those kerosene jet heaters keeping it warm. This is where he lived since a hatchling and roamed the yard in the summer.

I understand the humidity levels and such (look at my hatchling)

I just need to come up with a humid hide for this big guy as that is how I raise my hatchling. He is in this shop 24 hrs a day and sleeps in a coco coir floored humid hide.

This stuff will all be perfected this weekend as I didn't want to build to much without even seeing him and didn't want to waste my time. I am going to get it dark for him tomorrow in there.

Should I force the MVB bulb on him even if he tried to dig away from him or leave it dark and let him come out if he wants light?

Any suggestions for heat other than CHE? If heat lamp is no good how could a CHE be any better? Should I do a mat? I have heard bad things about them... everyone has different opinions I know.


What do you use for heat for this big of a guy? How about Humidity?? how do you keep it up for them?

Some people use a radiator which provides both heat and humidity. It sounds like your box might be big enough to put one in. Mine is too small so I use a radiant heat panel but it doesn't help with the humidity.

 

[cassidy.dixon]

When you say radiator heater I assume you mean the reptile radiator? If so... how does that help humidity? I like I though and will be ordering one.


Anyone have suggestions on humid hide?

I also put a cloth divider up in his house so the spot he was sleeping in is dark and the other end is where the red heat lamp is for now. This should get me by until the new one arrives. This morning his entire shell/ feet are 79. I took the divider down and turned on the MVB for the day. I will turn off the red one.

 

[Tom]

Any suggestions for heat other than CHE? If heat lamp is no good how could a CHE be any better? Should I do a mat? I have heard bad things about them... everyone has different opinions I know.

What do you use for heat for this big of a guy? How about Humidity?? how do you keep it up for them?

Belly heat is not recommended for smaller tortoises because the delivery methods have proven unsafe. Over head heat works best and simulates what they'd get outdoors. For larger tortoises, however, the pig blanket style heaters work great and have proven safe for decades now. Here are two examples of how to do it:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

If he had a warm box like one of these to retreat to, a large basking area to warm up in, and the floors stay in the high 70s or more, he should be fine in the shop.

floor temperature on average is 79 in entire shop. After this heat lamp running in his house for a few days, the floor is now 82 in the coolest spot. That still to cold for him to walk around on?

Those temps are fine, but how are you getting floor temps of 82 all over. The room would have to be 90+ all the time.

Still concrete is not good. Its either too slick if its polished, or to abrasive for tortoise feet and shell if not. Can you put dawn some thin plywood sheets for him to walk on? Substrate would be good too, but that will get really messy really quick.

 

[Yvonne G]

floor temperature on average is 79 in entire shop. After this heat lamp running in his house for a few days, the floor is now 82 in the coolest spot. That still to cold for him to walk around on?

One way for you to realize what Tom is saying about the cement floor is for you to take off your clothes and lay down on your supposedly 79F degree cement floor. You will soon see, the cement draws the warmth right out of your body. Believe me, it's too cold on cement for a tortoise. Your body has a way of replenishing its heat. A cold blooded sulcata doesn't. he needs to get his heat from an external source.

I understand you're trying your best and you want to give this tortoise a better life than the one he came from, but you also need to clear your mind and listen to the voices of experience that are trying to help you.

 

[cassidy.dixon]

How am I not listening?

I am asking so I can get it corrected....

My floor temp is 83 in his HOUSE (NOT THE ENTIRE FLOOR) I also stated I keep it 80 and up in this shop. Average temp is 79 as stated above.

I only stated his conditions when I got him to help give some insight as to why he is not doing so well here.

I already have a plywood floor in one end of his enclosure on the floor. I will finish the floor this weekend so it covers it all. I just verified and coolest spot on concrete floor under his hay is 80 ( that is even where no heat lamp is hitting.

 

[cassidy.dixon]

I don't know how to quote people but whoever posted the two box build links helps me a lot. Also thank you all for the ideas.

Here is this weekends plan...

HEAT- oil filled radiator heater from walmart with computer fan running it just like shown in link on thermostat

FLOOR- Finish the plywood floor so it spans the entire 8'

DAY LIGHT- UVB Solar Glo 160 Watt (12 hours a day)

As for the shop. I will continue the high temperatures so the floor stays around 80. I am cold blooded so my temps are always high any way.

Does anyone see any major issues with trying it this way? He finally came out today and ate two heads of Romaine and a plate full of collard greens. I sprinkled vitamin powder on one head of lettuce. He seemed a bit more comfortable around us but ate and wend right back in his house. I put the shirt back down so he is in the dark and we went to the back corner where the wood floor is and went to sleep.

 

[cassidy.dixon]

Just for the record this will not be his diet. It was offered as a snack and high moisture content because he has not drank yet in the 4 days we have had him. The family said he was eating timothy hay, however he turns his nose up to it. He would not eat Mazuri either. I have 2 bails of all natural weed/ grass mix a farmer bailed for me just for the torts.

 

[cassidy.dixon]

Here is the House I came up with. So much easier to hold temp and humidity. Floor is insulated and this will stay right here in the shop for them to live in. The new big guy is doing amazing. I have him on timothy, Mazuri, grass weed mix. He eats and poops wonderfully. He is also very friendly and acts right at home. This house is so much cheaper to heat and regulate.