Jet has shell rot

[Laijla]

"Shell rot" is a catch all term that covers fungal, bacterial, and environmental causes of shell damage. The treatment you are discussing is designed to be a 'shotgun' approach to fight all of these elements.

What you have appears to be the tortoise equivalent of 'trench foot' or 'immersion foot'- a softening and sloughing of the outer layers of keratin (the fingernail-like material scutes are made of) due to spending too much time on too wet of surfaces. The good news is that this version is not really a serious health issue when caught early, although it will become so if the damage goes deeper in the scute layers or it gets a secondary infection.

There are some basic phases to caring for this:
1. Drying and Cleaning Things Out. While the treatment you are discussing will certainly work, you also need to get the place dried out more and nice and clean to remove any possible fungi and bacteria colonies. This may mean replacing soaked materials, improving the drainage, or modifying shelters, etc.

2. Initial Treatment. Gently remove any remaining softened scute materials. I use a fingernail, but if there is a chance of either digging in too deeply or any infectious issues, you will want to use a toothbrush or scraping tool. Don't dig in, but the stuff soft enough to scrape gently off has to come off for healing to start.

Then clean the entire affected area and surrounding areas well with a good anti-biotic and anti-fungal cleaning agent like the Betadine to kill off anything trying to colonize in the tissues. This sets the stage to allow healing to start. (Betadine can damage new tissue, so don't use it after healing starts.)

3. Active Healing. If there is active fungal or bacterial growth, you need to treat it aggressively as the care plan describes. There is not always fungi or bacteria if the rot was caused by water contact, but it is better to be safe than sorry if you are unsure.

You should see an improvement in the scutes in a fairly short amount of time. The actual damage will never completely grow back, but will fade over time.

Also- understand that this is a very common issue. It can be tough to balance the need for humidity with the need for a non-wet surface for these tortoises. A lot of us have at least one Red-foot with this.

My indoor habitats now all have a dry layer of material on top of whatever damp substrate I am using (usually a 'bioactive substrate' lately) when I learned this lesson from sphagnum moss I struggled to keep slightly damp in a very dry house.



@Terry K.- I think Redfoots.com is broken. Would there be a way to either post your treatment plan on turtletary.com or as a sticky here?

Matt, thanks sooo much for your feedback! I had a hard time setting my camera so the pictures were not blurry. Hopefully the pictures are now clear enough so people could see what I was dealing with - should I take him to the vet based on the damage you can see or try and treat it at home first like I am doing? How long before one knows if its healing up well or becoming real trouble? He does have those cracks and puncture wounds from six months ago on his plastron - perhaps he might still be more suseptible to secondary infections because of them?
When I gently scrubbed his belly with the toothbrush dipped in betadine solution he showed no pain or discomfort - hoping that is a good indication it has not gone deep. Makes sense because he has sphagnum moss in his hides outside and we have had at least 3-4 days of rain a week for weeks on end. His enclosure has great drainage but nothing was really airing out well. He is indoors on clean dry cypress mulch now so hopefully he will heal quickly. How long before I return him outside ya think?
Also, he has steadily gained weight and has had even growth since I got him in January but he is 2 & 3/4" long. He will be one next month or September... is he a smaller specimen or is that pretty average for length? Seems more people have posted their torts are 3-4 inches at about this age? Just curious.

 

[Madkins007]

Matt, thanks sooo much for your feedback! I had a hard time setting my camera so the pictures were not blurry. Hopefully the pictures are now clear enough so people could see what I was dealing with - should I take him to the vet based on the damage you can see or try and treat it at home first like I am doing? How long before one knows if its healing up well or becoming real trouble? He does have those cracks and puncture wounds from six months ago on his plastron - perhaps he might still be more suseptible to secondary infections because of them?
When I gently scrubbed his belly with the toothbrush dipped in betadine solution he showed no pain or discomfort - hoping that is a good indication it has not gone deep. Makes sense because he has sphagnum moss in his hides outside and we have had at least 3-4 days of rain a week for weeks on end. His enclosure has great drainage but nothing was really airing out well. He is indoors on clean dry cypress mulch now so hopefully he will heal quickly. How long before I return him outside ya think?
Also, he has steadily gained weight and has had even growth since I got him in January but he is 2 & 3/4" long. He will be one next month or September... is he a smaller specimen or is that pretty average for length? Seems more people have posted their torts are 3-4 inches at about this age? Just curious.

Just FYI- I'm Mark, in Nebraska. Matt's the good looking one.

The 'immersion version' of shell rot does not seem to cause any real discomfort to the animals, and I would definitely be concerned a little about secondary issues with pre-existing damage.

You should get him back outside ASAP. I'd dig out the wet stuff and replace it with a thick layer of cypress for drainage, and some moss or softer stuff on top.

Also DO NOT worry about slow growth. In the wild, they only gain about an inch a year. It is way too easy to overfeed them and have them grow too fast.

---

FIRST: Redfoots.com is NOT my site. I.. at best.. am only the "experience" behind it. My ex-webhost 'owns' redfoots.com so I am limited to the editing I can do! As the 'home' page mentions - Wiggles is the computer guy and I'm the redfoot guy.

I'm not having trouble opening the site.. but that may be because I'm the 'mod'(?).

Mark I've contacted and left a msg. for the 'admin'... and will see about doing those very things. If you'll email me or POST instructions on how to do a sticky I'll do my best...

NERD

LOL! I know Redfoots.com isn't yours, which is why I did not recommend any edits or anything. I just thought it would be helpful to add it to your site. As far as a sticky, an admin can help you more than I could!

Glad to hear it is working again, though!

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Mark and any others..

Redfoots.com was never "broken"! OPEN registration had not been available because of the 'spammers'! Registration has always been available to anyone who was willing to read and submit a request and complete the form to be approved. Approval would then be 'cleared' almost always within an hour with a returned email!

OPEN registration is now available with a spam filter in operation.

NERD

 

[Laijla]

Matt, thanks sooo much for your feedback! I had a hard time setting my camera so the pictures were not blurry. Hopefully the pictures are now clear enough so people could see what I was dealing with - should I take him to the vet based on the damage you can see or try and treat it at home first like I am doing? How long before one knows if its healing up well or becoming real trouble? He does have those cracks and puncture wounds from six months ago on his plastron - perhaps he might still be more suseptible to secondary infections because of them?
When I gently scrubbed his belly with the toothbrush dipped in betadine solution he showed no pain or discomfort - hoping that is a good indication it has not gone deep. Makes sense because he has sphagnum moss in his hides outside and we have had at least 3-4 days of rain a week for weeks on end. His enclosure has great drainage but nothing was really airing out well. He is indoors on clean dry cypress mulch now so hopefully he will heal quickly. How long before I return him outside ya think?
Also, he has steadily gained weight and has had even growth since I got him in January but he is 2 & 3/4" long. He will be one next month or September... is he a smaller specimen or is that pretty average for length? Seems more people have posted their torts are 3-4 inches at about this age? Just curious.

Just FYI- I'm Mark, in Nebraska. Matt's the good looking one.

The 'immersion version' of shell rot does not seem to cause any real discomfort to the animals, and I would definitely be concerned a little about secondary issues with pre-existing damage.

You should get him back outside ASAP. I'd dig out the wet stuff and replace it with a thick layer of cypress for drainage, and some moss or softer stuff on top.

Also DO NOT worry about slow growth. In the wild, they only gain about an inch a year. It is way too easy to overfeed them and have them grow too fast.

---

hahahaha - sorry I called you Matt and not Mark... I don't know what either of you look like so the 'good looking one' is yet to be determined!
I think you called it right on the 'immersion version' and I think there is minimal bacterial or fungal issues. It's almost like he was water logged and was 'pruney' like our skin gets when in a bath too long. Within 24-48 hours you could hardly see anything on his shell!?! It's really cleared up! there is one tiny pencil eraser sized spot that stayed white so I am continuing to treat and keep an eye on that.
I will change out his hides and replace with cypress mulch tomorrow. He really is more active outside - seems far more content/happy. My sister has a hatchling that is about 3-4 months younger than Jet and her tort is already bigger. Her hatchling is not as smooth as Jet though so I'm thinking hers is maybe growing a bit quick... I followed Nerds recommendations for feeding during the winter/early spring but this summer he has mainly been eating a variety of yard weeds and hardy hibiscus leaves. God only knows how many pillbugs and earthworms he eats - if he is getting too much protein I'd have a hard time controlling what he 'hunts' outside. I throw him hibiscus flowers and squash here and there as a treat. He is not big but he seems healthy overall.
Thanks again MARK

---