Jet has shell rot

[Laijla]

Hi guys, I reread the 'Tortoise shell rot and how to treat it' listed. I'm off to buy Betadine and Chlorhexidine/or Nolvesan tonight after work. It says to only use Betadine once or twice to prevent new growth being inhibited. There are some soft whitish spots on his plastern and it definitely looks like pictures of shell rot I have seen.Does one or two treatments usually kill the fungus?
He's been outside the last 2 months and he is on cypress mulch (with sphagnum in his two hides). We have had lots and lots of rain the last several weeks --- guessing because he is still small and hangs out in his hides most the day he got it from sogging sphagnum moss The drainage is good but again, it has been extra rainy here.
Can I treat him and leave him outside? or should I bring him back inside for a few weeks? I hate to bring him inside because I know he loves being outdoors! Suggestions?

 

[PeanutbuttER]

I treated mine about 2 months ago with the betadine chlorhexidine routine and it worked great. From what I remember it didn't take more than a few days for me.

I want to say that I remember people saying you should also cover the shell rot with a thin layer of neosporin if they're going to get dirty again. That way there is that coating which can help "seal" the exposed tissues/shell. Can anyone else verify that. I'm not super confident about it, but that seems to be what I remember hearing.

 

[spikethebest]

can you post a picture of it?

 

[Laijla]

can you post a picture of it?

I'll try tonight to get a picture. I have not figured out how to get my camera to take pictures of his shell up close that don't come out blurry??? I now its a macro setting (I think) but just have had no luck... plus he has several cracks from where the dog bit/chewed on him back in February. the shell rot is whitish and soft - it's in about 3-4 places the size of a pencil earaser heads.
I do need to figure out the camera so I can get some new pictures up in general... he is looking decent on top and he will be one years old August/September. He has gone through a big growth spurt since May and I noticed the shell is really starting to show the damage from the dog injury that was not so obvious early on... he looks smooth for the most part and I don't notice any pyramiding but there are bumps & lumps dips & grooves around the deepest puncture wound on the top of his shell. He is a 'vegetation eating - bug killing machine' and the attack was nearly six months ago so I'm guessing we are past the danger zone but sadly he will likely have life long scars.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Where did you see anything about treating 'shell-rot' on TFO?

We have a page and video here - http://www.redfoots.com/smf/index.php?topic=544.0

You'll have to take some time and read it completely.. and then follow what has proven to work. All of your Q?'s have been addressed!

It IS that simple.. only when you follow it exactly.. no variations.

NERD

 

[Laijla]

Where did you see anything about treating 'shell-rot' on TFO?

We have a page and video here - http://www.redfoots.com/smf/index.php?topic=544.0

You'll have to take some time and read it completely.. and then follow what has proven to work. All of your Q?'s have been addressed!

It IS that simple.. only when you follow it exactly.. no variations.

NERD

I saw references to treating shell rot on 'Important Threads' listed under the redfoot and yellowfoot section.
I'll take a look at the video. Thanks!

*** it won't let me register an account so I can view link/video --- I'll try again later...

 

[terryo]

The references to treating shell rot on 'Important Threads' listed under the redfoot and yellowfoot section are from redfoots.com, Nerd.

 

[Laijla]

The references to treating shell rot on 'Important Threads' listed under the redfoot and yellowfoot section are from redfoots.com, Nerd.

I guess I was referring to posts within that thread regarding Betadine and Chlorhexidine... I tried to pull up the video through the link at redfoots.com but it says, 'registration is currently disabled" so currently I'm unable to access the video. I just tried to read through comments from Sid the Turtle's original post back in 3-31-2008 listed in important threads. I'll just check back on the video...

 

[terryo]

Can you see it like this? I really don't know how to do this too well.



Applying Betadine with a soft toothbrush to clean the infected areas.
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=betadine.flv

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=rinse-n-dry.flv


Rinsing & Drying after cleaning with the betadine
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=cream1-2.flv

Applying 1% Clotrimazole anti-fungus cream with a Q-tip. Apply so that there is a thin coat. Do not gob it on.
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=Apply.flv

 

[Laijla]

Can you see it like this? I really don't know how to do this too well.



Applying Betadine with a soft toothbrush to clean the infected areas.
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=betadine.flv

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=rinse-n-dry.flv


Rinsing & Drying after cleaning with the betadine
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=cream1-2.flv

Applying 1% Clotrimazole anti-fungus cream with a Q-tip. Apply so that there is a thin coat. Do not gob it on.
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/Redfoots/?action=view&current=Apply.flv

THANKS! I could view the videos that way! I'm glad you said 1% Clotrimazole because I got a rash on my neck a few months back and was given a prescription for 10.0 mg Clotrimazole - wondered if I could use it... I'm sure its way too strong for a yearling so I just bought some OTC stuff...
appreciate the feedback

 

[luck102573]

Where did you see anything about treating 'shell-rot' on TFO?

We have a page and video here - http://www.redfoots.com/smf/index.php?topic=544.0

You'll have to take some time and read it completely.. and then follow what has proven to work. All of your Q?'s have been addressed!

It IS that simple.. only when you follow it exactly.. no variations.

NERD

Terry,
every time I open this page on redfoots.com it says registration has been disabled. Is there a way around this or is it my puter setting you think?
Thanks,
Teena

 

[Laijla]

can you post a picture of it?

Okay, I got some shots of Jet's shell rot and his overall growth (top views). The few spots I noticed last week or so have spread to be more than I thought I followed the directions per the video nerd has on redfoots.com (thanks Terryo for helping with the links!) I took a second pic today (less than 24 hours) and I swear It seems to look better already!
In the plastron shots you can see some of the old puncture wounds and some hairline-like cracks from the dog bite. On the carapace shots you can see between the 2 larger scutes behind his head where it buckles a little. That is where the one puncture wound on top was located. His plastron was always sort of lumpy and folded looking from when I got him. He does not seem to be pyramiding and will be a year very soon... seems all our shell issues have been on the underside so far
*** also, its suppose to RAIN and RAIN here for the next several days so he is inside now - I have him on bone dry cypress mulch but he has lots of live plants to hide under. The humidity is about 70% - I know he'd rather stay outside
thanks for the help guys!

 

[Yvonne G]

His carapace is beautiful! I hope you get the plastron under control soon. Great-looking little tortoise.

 

[terryo]

He's beautiful. That shell rot will be cleared up in no time.

 

[Laijla]

He's beautiful. That shell rot will be cleared up in no time.

Thanks Yvonne and Terryo - he looks good until you flip him onto his belly! I think the shell rot treatment is going to heal him in no time! Funny that you both think he is 'beautiful' -- I still see him as a 'Plain Jane' specimen compared to so many of the orange-ish colored and cherry head varieties. But it makes me think of a guy I dated years ago... I asked, "what type of food do you like?" (meaning Italian? French? Mexican?,etc.) He responed, "I like it all so long as it's fresh."
Sort of the same deal - I think the tortoises (any animal or person) are all beautiful when they look healthy!
I'll be sure to post pictures as he heals underneath!
Again, many thanks!

 

[Madkins007]

"Shell rot" is a catch all term that covers fungal, bacterial, and environmental causes of shell damage. The treatment you are discussing is designed to be a 'shotgun' approach to fight all of these elements.

What you have appears to be the tortoise equivalent of 'trench foot' or 'immersion foot'- a softening and sloughing of the outer layers of keratin (the fingernail-like material scutes are made of) due to spending too much time on too wet of surfaces. The good news is that this version is not really a serious health issue when caught early, although it will become so if the damage goes deeper in the scute layers or it gets a secondary infection.

There are some basic phases to caring for this:
1. Drying and Cleaning Things Out. While the treatment you are discussing will certainly work, you also need to get the place dried out more and nice and clean to remove any possible fungi and bacteria colonies. This may mean replacing soaked materials, improving the drainage, or modifying shelters, etc.

2. Initial Treatment. Gently remove any remaining softened scute materials. I use a fingernail, but if there is a chance of either digging in too deeply or any infectious issues, you will want to use a toothbrush or scraping tool. Don't dig in, but the stuff soft enough to scrape gently off has to come off for healing to start.

Then clean the entire affected area and surrounding areas well with a good anti-biotic and anti-fungal cleaning agent like the Betadine to kill off anything trying to colonize in the tissues. This sets the stage to allow healing to start. (Betadine can damage new tissue, so don't use it after healing starts.)

3. Active Healing. If there is active fungal or bacterial growth, you need to treat it aggressively as the care plan describes. There is not always fungi or bacteria if the rot was caused by water contact, but it is better to be safe than sorry if you are unsure.

You should see an improvement in the scutes in a fairly short amount of time. The actual damage will never completely grow back, but will fade over time.

Also- understand that this is a very common issue. It can be tough to balance the need for humidity with the need for a non-wet surface for these tortoises. A lot of us have at least one Red-foot with this.

My indoor habitats now all have a dry layer of material on top of whatever damp substrate I am using (usually a 'bioactive substrate' lately) when I learned this lesson from sphagnum moss I struggled to keep slightly damp in a very dry house.



@Terry K.- I think Redfoots.com is broken. Would there be a way to either post your treatment plan on turtletary.com or as a sticky here?

 

[movealongmosey]

Here's the website I went to when I was concerned.
http://www.turtlepuddle.org/health/shellrot.html

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Here's the website I went to when I was concerned.
http://www.turtlepuddle.org/health/shellrot.html

Appreciate the link Katie.. however I don't know how that will work for tortoises(?)

NERD

 

[movealongmosey]

Yeah, though it's not made specifically for torts it's good info about shell rot. I did use this method for my tort mosey and it did stop the white fungus. I do have to say hydrogen peroxide is a little harsh, so i'd advise against that.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

"Shell rot" is a catch all term that covers fungal, bacterial, and environmental causes of shell damage. The treatment you are discussing is designed to be a 'shotgun' approach to fight all of these elements.

What you have appears to be the tortoise equivalent of 'trench foot' or 'immersion foot'- a softening and sloughing of the outer layers of keratin (the fingernail-like material scutes are made of) due to spending too much time on too wet of surfaces. The good news is that this version is not really a serious health issue when caught early, although it will become so if the damage goes deeper in the scute layers or it gets a secondary infection.

There are some basic phases to caring for this:
1. Drying and Cleaning Things Out. While the treatment you are discussing will certainly work, you also need to get the place dried out more and nice and clean to remove any possible fungi and bacteria colonies. This may mean replacing soaked materials, improving the drainage, or modifying shelters, etc.

2. Initial Treatment. Gently remove any remaining softened scute materials. I use a fingernail, but if there is a chance of either digging in too deeply or any infectious issues, you will want to use a toothbrush or scraping tool. Don't dig in, but the stuff soft enough to scrape gently off has to come off for healing to start.

Then clean the entire affected area and surrounding areas well with a good anti-biotic and anti-fungal cleaning agent like the Betadine to kill off anything trying to colonize in the tissues. This sets the stage to allow healing to start. (Betadine can damage new tissue, so don't use it after healing starts.)

3. Active Healing. If there is active fungal or bacterial growth, you need to treat it aggressively as the care plan describes. There is not always fungi or bacteria if the rot was caused by water contact, but it is better to be safe than sorry if you are unsure.

You should see an improvement in the scutes in a fairly short amount of time. The actual damage will never completely grow back, but will fade over time.

Also- understand that this is a very common issue. It can be tough to balance the need for humidity with the need for a non-wet surface for these tortoises. A lot of us have at least one Red-foot with this.

My indoor habitats now all have a dry layer of material on top of whatever damp substrate I am using (usually a 'bioactive substrate' lately) when I learned this lesson from sphagnum moss I struggled to keep slightly damp in a very dry house.



@Terry K.- I think Redfoots.com is broken. Would there be a way to either post your treatment plan on turtletary.com or as a sticky here?

FIRST: Redfoots.com is NOT my site. I.. at best.. am only the "experience" behind it. My ex-webhost 'owns' redfoots.com so I am limited to the editing I can do! As the 'home' page mentions - Wiggles is the computer guy and I'm the redfoot guy.

I'm not having trouble opening the site.. but that may be because I'm the 'mod'(?).

Mark I've contacted and left a msg. for the 'admin'... and will see about doing those very things. If you'll email me or POST instructions on how to do a sticky I'll do my best...

NERD