is it a boy or a girl???

[katecher]

Hello everybody, i hope you will help. i got russian male 5 years ago, which i didn't know that he was male, now i can really see it. his tail goes the whole way to the side. the problem is that yesterday i got another one which i was told is a female. now the more i look at it, i think it is male because his tail is shorter but goes a little to the side too. also my male is bulling or mating(i don't know) constantly, so what should i do???
my male is on the right, do you think is it female or male on the left????

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i forgot to mention that i changed the whole set up, added aloe, and it is dirt mixed with sand now. so it is new environment for both of them.
my male keep following poor guy, bitting his neck and legs and just simply can not leave him alone.

 

[GBtortoises]

There is a lot of glare in the photo on the tortoise that you want identified. Based on the shape of the anal scutes and what appears to be a thinner, shorter tail the tortoise on the left could be a female. But it does look very thick at the base and possibly longer than typically found on a female so it can also be a male that has not fully developed yet. A clearer photo would help.

Your male is chasing the new inhabitant around because it is in his already established territory. If the newer tortoise is a male it is being challenged to leave the other's territory. A dominant male will typically bite and chase another male in order to get it to leave the dominant male's territory. Often, but not always, a dominant male will pursue a submissive male from behind biting at it's rear legs, ramming it from behind and sometimes mounting it from behind. Indoors, because of lack of space, a submissive male can become cornered and attacked from the front also. The dominant male is not picky about where he attacks and probably cannot understand why this new male hasn't vacated his turf yet! In the wild and in spacious outdoor enclosures in captivity the submissive would have an opportunity to escape and/or hide.

Usually a female will be greeted by a dominant male by sniffing, then head bobbing. Usually if she is "in season" (ready to mate) she will often mimick the males head bobbing. Not always though. If she does the male will usually zip right around behind her and mount her. If she doesn't return the head bob or turns to leave the male will usually chase after her, biting at her legs and ramming her to stop her. If she stops (or even if she doesn't) he will attempt to mount her. If she is willing to breed, she will usually raise her rear end a bit and sit patiently as the male copulates with her. If she is not ready to breed but has stopped she will usually draw in her head and legs and sit flat on the ground. The male will still mount her and make an attempt to mate but is almost always unsucessfull if the female is in the position. Many people mistake a male mounting a female each time as successful breeding when in fact it is rarely the case.

Regardless of whether your new inhabitant is male of female your current male is going to show aggression toward them. It's just that the meaning of the aggression is for two seperate reasons. The main difference is that it will eventually subside with a female although it will flare up from time to time based on seasonal changes in light duration and temperatures, even changes in the enclosure can bring it about. If you have another male the aggression may eventually subside but changes within their environment, especially adding a female, will often bring back strong aggression by the more dominant male. It's always a possibility that the newer male will become the aggressor too.

The new tortoise should really be quarantined from the current one. Adding a new animal directly in with an established one exposes them both to potential disease and parasite transfer and it puts the new animal at a distinct disadvantage since it is already at a higher stress level from a complete change in environment.
Along with those factors you now elevate the stress level even higher by placing it with an established dominate male that wants the new animal out of his territory or wants to mate with the new female.

 

[katecher]

thank you very much, i'll separate them immediately
my male sniffed, then did head bobbing,
on pic what they doing right now,

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here is another pic

 

[GBtortoises]

Based on the last photo you posted, you have two males. It's hard to believe that in my usual long winded response that I forget to mention that males will also often greet each other with head bobbing too. It's the usual Russian tortoise greeting. But the reaction to a male and a female are very different after the head bob!

They really should be quarantined anyway. It's a good way to ensure that they will both remain healthy and will give you a good opportunity to monitor the new tortoise in a normal state without the aggression involved.

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes they are both males

Like Gary said your going to have to quarantine the new male and in all likelyhood your going to have to set them up seperately when inside. You should be fine with a well planted enclosure outside though.

Danny

 

[katecher]

do you know for how long should i quarantine?

 

[egyptiandan]

Quarantine would be at least 3 months. Longer if the new animal gets sick with-in that time.

Danny