how many times do you feed your tort daily?
- Thread starter HtVic
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That is not consistent with my experiences. My tortoises have 24/7 access to food as they primarily eat grass/weeds and are housed on it. They also do not pyramid.
I'd love to read the paper you found, assuming it is current. I have read several dated papers from common prior belief era that pyramiding was caused from high protein intake, but never seen any convincing studies done, and have not seen anything like this recently. Thanks for sharing, and please do post the publication when you have a moment. Additionally, while I am sure many foods contain phosphorus I am aware offhand that nuts and seeds usually have particularly high phosphorus content... But I have no idea why a tortoise would be eating lots of those anyways so probably not applicable.
I'd love to read the paper you found, assuming it is current. I have read several dated papers from common prior belief era that pyramiding was caused from high protein intake, but never seen any convincing studies done, and have not seen anything like this recently. Thanks for sharing, and please do post the publication when you have a moment. Additionally, while I am sure many foods contain phosphorus I am aware offhand that nuts and seeds usually have particularly high phosphorus content... But I have no idea why a tortoise would be eating lots of those anyways so probably not applicable.
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I'm pretty sure that has been disproven, but how often to feed depends on the species and age (size). What do you have and how big is it? My cherrys get 2 small meals a day, they like it better than one.
Pyramiding is not caused by food or protein. It is caused by growth in the wrong conditions. My preferred method of feeding is allowing them to graze on their own in an outdoor enclosure full of weeds and grasses. If the weather and the tortoises size or age prevent that then I feed them once or twice a day.
I feed Emrys once a day, but he also has constant access to plants growing within his enclosure.
Tom said:
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"Pyamiding is not caused by food or protein".
There is some differences between animal and plant proteins. With a few species exceptions, animal proteins should not be fed to tortoises. Definitely not to Testudo species. Plant proteins are a different story. Many species, especially brumating species such as many of the Testudo have been recorded in nature as consuming large amounts of plants laden with proteins almost immediately out of brumation. Researchers theorize that this large immediate consumption of plant high in protein is to restrengthen muscle tissue, revitalize gut bacteria and in the case of females enhance egg production.
In captivity excessive protein accompanied with other factors such as excessive use of vitamins, too dry of conditions, constant long term heat and lack of mobility space can be[i/] a contribruting factor to pyramiding. But it is unlikely that proteins alone will cause problems, especially with well hydrated tortoises. Those same factors are absolutely a recipe for accelerated growth in captive tortoises.
Phosphorous is found in almost all plants, particularly dark, thick leaved green plants. It's impossible to list all plants and vegetables that contain it and at what levels. The best way is to search nutrional sites online to find out approximate amounts. It's not so much the amount of phosphorus, but the calcium to phosphorous ratio of an individual food that is more important. The "ideal ratio" rule of thumb has always been at least a calcium/phosphorous ratio of 2:1.
"overfeeding is one of the factor cause of pyramiding. what kind of food contain phosphorus?"
It is very unlikely that a tortoise kept in optimum captive conditions, well hydrated, correct temperatures and so on, will be overfed. Most tortoises are fed foods in captivity that are far richer in vitamins and minerals than they would have access to in nature on a regular basis. Most are also very likely fed a much higher volume of food on a regular basis than they would find in nature. Despite that, if the other aspects of their care are "correct" they really can't be overfed. Even the most gluttonous will eventually turn away from food if they've had too much. But much of their willingness to eat (or stop) depends greatly on their environmental conditions-how they're being kept in captivity.
There is some differences between animal and plant proteins. With a few species exceptions, animal proteins should not be fed to tortoises. Definitely not to Testudo species. Plant proteins are a different story. Many species, especially brumating species such as many of the Testudo have been recorded in nature as consuming large amounts of plants laden with proteins almost immediately out of brumation. Researchers theorize that this large immediate consumption of plant high in protein is to restrengthen muscle tissue, revitalize gut bacteria and in the case of females enhance egg production.
In captivity excessive protein accompanied with other factors such as excessive use of vitamins, too dry of conditions, constant long term heat and lack of mobility space can be[i/] a contribruting factor to pyramiding. But it is unlikely that proteins alone will cause problems, especially with well hydrated tortoises. Those same factors are absolutely a recipe for accelerated growth in captive tortoises.
Phosphorous is found in almost all plants, particularly dark, thick leaved green plants. It's impossible to list all plants and vegetables that contain it and at what levels. The best way is to search nutrional sites online to find out approximate amounts. It's not so much the amount of phosphorus, but the calcium to phosphorous ratio of an individual food that is more important. The "ideal ratio" rule of thumb has always been at least a calcium/phosphorous ratio of 2:1.
"overfeeding is one of the factor cause of pyramiding. what kind of food contain phosphorus?"
It is very unlikely that a tortoise kept in optimum captive conditions, well hydrated, correct temperatures and so on, will be overfed. Most tortoises are fed foods in captivity that are far richer in vitamins and minerals than they would have access to in nature on a regular basis. Most are also very likely fed a much higher volume of food on a regular basis than they would find in nature. Despite that, if the other aspects of their care are "correct" they really can't be overfed. Even the most gluttonous will eventually turn away from food if they've had too much. But much of their willingness to eat (or stop) depends greatly on their environmental conditions-how they're being kept in captivity.
My radiated I feed every morning, we have a good routine. My redfoots dont get fed everyday but if its warm enough to have them out they do find grass and other greens to eat
Both plants and animals have a variety of different proteins, some of which are similar, others not. The main difference is that animals have a heckuva lot more protein in them, because they have muscles.
Another big difference between plant and animal tissues is their lipids. Plants usually have oils that remain liquid at room temperature, while animals contain fats that become solid at room temperature. There are nutritional ramifications from eating plant or animal lipids.
Sugars between plants and animals are similar, although plants store their sugars as starch, while animals store theirs in a similar form called glycogen.
When it comes to feeding outdoors, herbivorous tortoises may browse or graze whenever the temperature is favorable (morning and evening on hotter days, midday on cooler days, and none at all when it's too hot or cold). Omnivorous tortoises and box turtles may also hunt for invertebrates or scavenge meat when they can.
Indoor pets, of course, rely on us to feed them. In that case, it is possible to overfeed, and tortoises have been known to become obese. Russian tortoises like to eat a lot to develop fat reserves for their winter brumation (hibernation), so this species is prone to overeating. A good rule of thumb is to feed a pet tortoise no more than it can eat in about 20 minutes. That's generally what I do with my indoor Russians: give them as much food as they can eat in under half-an-hour every morning during the growing season, so they can hibernate during the winter. I also take them outdoors as much as possible, at which time they can browse and graze ad libidum. Sometimes I feed them in the afternoon if they still appear to be hungry (i.e. looking for food).
As for pyramiding, there are probably both environmental and nutritional factors. If the climate is unsuitable (too dry), the scutes may not develop properly. In addition, the underlying bone may expand if it is not dense enough, suggesting that it is not high protein intake per se that is responsible, but rather inadequate calcium and vitamin D3 levels. Protein in excess of what the animal is adapted for can lead to fat deposition, as well as kidney and liver failure. The diet of true omnivores should consist about half of plants and fungi, about half of invertebrates, and occasionally meat. Generalist herbivores should be eating mostly greens, with the occasional fruit, fungus, or invertebrate thrown in (snails have valuable calcium in their shells). Strict herbivores rely on a high-fiber diet of leafy greens and some grass, with fruit and invertebrates being consumed only rarely.
In short, a tortoise's shell may become deformed if it does not get what it needs, but there are several factors that go into that.
Another big difference between plant and animal tissues is their lipids. Plants usually have oils that remain liquid at room temperature, while animals contain fats that become solid at room temperature. There are nutritional ramifications from eating plant or animal lipids.
Sugars between plants and animals are similar, although plants store their sugars as starch, while animals store theirs in a similar form called glycogen.
When it comes to feeding outdoors, herbivorous tortoises may browse or graze whenever the temperature is favorable (morning and evening on hotter days, midday on cooler days, and none at all when it's too hot or cold). Omnivorous tortoises and box turtles may also hunt for invertebrates or scavenge meat when they can.
Indoor pets, of course, rely on us to feed them. In that case, it is possible to overfeed, and tortoises have been known to become obese. Russian tortoises like to eat a lot to develop fat reserves for their winter brumation (hibernation), so this species is prone to overeating. A good rule of thumb is to feed a pet tortoise no more than it can eat in about 20 minutes. That's generally what I do with my indoor Russians: give them as much food as they can eat in under half-an-hour every morning during the growing season, so they can hibernate during the winter. I also take them outdoors as much as possible, at which time they can browse and graze ad libidum. Sometimes I feed them in the afternoon if they still appear to be hungry (i.e. looking for food).
As for pyramiding, there are probably both environmental and nutritional factors. If the climate is unsuitable (too dry), the scutes may not develop properly. In addition, the underlying bone may expand if it is not dense enough, suggesting that it is not high protein intake per se that is responsible, but rather inadequate calcium and vitamin D3 levels. Protein in excess of what the animal is adapted for can lead to fat deposition, as well as kidney and liver failure. The diet of true omnivores should consist about half of plants and fungi, about half of invertebrates, and occasionally meat. Generalist herbivores should be eating mostly greens, with the occasional fruit, fungus, or invertebrate thrown in (snails have valuable calcium in their shells). Strict herbivores rely on a high-fiber diet of leafy greens and some grass, with fruit and invertebrates being consumed only rarely.
In short, a tortoise's shell may become deformed if it does not get what it needs, but there are several factors that go into that.
great info y'all!
katherine said:
I agree. My tortoises have 24/7 access to food as well and I've NEVER had a single one of my tortoises pyramid.
I feed my 2 everyother day as if i feed them daily they dont eat!
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I've been feeding my little guy twice daily as he is getting over sickness and doesn't have a big appetite
HtVic said:
He always has grasses and mixed lettuce available, and then I'll add other edible plants and flowers. I can't remember the name of the current one he has, but I'll include anything from the 'safe to feed' or 'feed in moderation' options at http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/
I purchase whatever I can find in my local supermarket or garden centre that The Tortoise Table says is non-toxic, so he's always got access to at least three food options in his enclosure. Sometimes, I plant a fourth option, but he also gets fed once a day with spring mix, garden weeds or occasional treats in the form of root vegetables and fruit.
He certainly doesn't go crazy with his eating. He stops when he's had enough and I can add food one day and remove it/replace it the next if it's not been eaten.
I am a firm believer that no one thing causes pyramiding, that is a combination of several things of which diet is one of those things (not just what you feed, but when you feed and what amounts during what environmental conditions) and also which species your talking about.
As to how often I feed, it depends on the age, the species, and the environment that day. They have days, when they may not even get food up to days when they may get several meals or have the ability to graze all they wish.
As to how often I feed, it depends on the age, the species, and the environment that day. They have days, when they may not even get food up to days when they may get several meals or have the ability to graze all they wish.
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