Horsefield T Neck

[CurtisM]

Newbie question.

I've a 10mth old Horsfield.
It's holding it's neck at a 90° angle to the left.

It does retract and has been eating moving.

Is this normal???
TIA

 

[Tom]

No. Not normal.

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[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome.
Can you post pictures? That will really help members see what's going on.
If you post pictures of his enclosure and the lamps you use we can also see if there's anything that could be affecting him.

 

[CurtisM]

Newbie question.

I've a 10mth old Horsfield.
It's holding it's neck at a 90° angle to the left.

It does retract and has been eating moving.

Hi and welcome.
Can you post pictures? That will really help members see what's going on.
If you post pictures of his enclosure and the lamps you use we can also see if there's anything that could be affecting

Is this normal???
TIA

Hi and welcome.
Can you post pictures? That will really help members see what's going on.
If you post pictures of his enclosure and the lamps you use we can also see if there's anything that could be affecting him.

Thank you lyn, i've attached some photos as suggested

 

[Tom]

Thank you lyn, i've attached some photos as suggested

I can't imagine why the neck would be stuck that way, but you need to change everything about how you are housing this tortoise. Did you read the thread I linked? You have the wrong lighting, and its not attached safely, wrong substrate, wrong enclosure, wrong water bowl... This is not your fault. The pet shops have it all wrong, and you have clearly done a great job of following the advice you were given. It was just the wrong advice, unfortunately. This happens to almost everyone.

I don't know if all these things are related to your problem or not, but these things are a problem. All the info you need is in that thread.

 

[Lyn W]

Thank you lyn, i've attached some photos as suggested

Thanks. You need to read Tom's thread and change things asap because -
- you have the wrong substrate - pellets and straw are too dry for any tort and go mouldy when wet which produces spores which can cause RI. Sand and anything with white bits in it is also unsafe.
- the dishes are too steep for the tort to access safely especially the water dish which could be a drowning hazard if he tips back - you would be better with a cheap shallow terracotta plant saucer for both water and food or a slate for food. I wonder if he's hurt his neck falling when trying to access food and water or maybe falling off the log. Does he try to climb it?
- the clamps supplied with lamps have been known to fail and cause fires so you need to hang any lamps vertically. You can also raise or lower the lamp to get the correct temp
- if you are using an all in one (mvb) lamp they have been found to dry and damage shells so aren't recommended anymore. Many of us now use a T5 HO tube kit for UVB, with a separate flood basking bulb (I like Arcadia) and a CHE run through a thermostat for night heat and extra heat if needed. Coiled and cfl type bulbs are also risky for tort eyes.
- open tables make it difficult to retain heat and humidity so consider using a mini portable greenhouse over it - you can hang the lamps inside from the frame.
- the strip thermometer you have are often unreliable - you need a digital thermometer/hygrometer at tort level. A digital temp gun is also good to have to spot check temps around the enclosure.
This all sounds very daunting but they are common mistakes that we have all made because pet shops know very little about tort care but are happy to sell unsuitable and unsafe equipment for profit. Tom's information will give you much more detail on how to improve things for your tort, I've just tried to highlight the main things I can see in your pics.

You'll find www.thetortisetable.org.uk useful for improving diet. Carrots shouldn't be a regular food, and may not be, but chunks of food can cause choking (even in larger species).
Hope that helps but ask as many questions as you like to clarify anything.

 

[CurtisM]

Thanks. You need to read Tom's thread and change things asap because -
- you have the wrong substrate - pellets and straw are too dry for any tort and go mouldy when wet which produces spores which can cause RI. Sand and anything with white bits in it is also unsafe.
- the dishes are too steep for the tort to access safely especially the water dish which could be a drowning hazard if he tips back - you would be better with a cheap shallow terracotta plant saucer for both water and food or a slate for food. I wonder if he's hurt his neck falling when trying to access food and water or maybe falling off the log. Does he try to climb it?
- the clamps supplied with lamps have been known to fail and cause fires so you need to hang any lamps vertically. You can also raise or lower the lamp to get the correct temp
- if you are using an all in one (mvb) lamp they have been found to dry and damage shells so aren't recommended anymore. Many of us now use a T5 HO tube kit for UVB, with a separate flood basking bulb (I like Arcadia) and a CHE run through a thermostat for night heat and extra heat if needed. Coiled and cfl type bulbs are also risky for tort eyes.
- open tables make it difficult to retain heat and humidity so consider using a mini portable greenhouse over it - you can hang the lamps inside from the frame.
- the strip thermometer you have are often unreliable - you need a digital thermometer/hygrometer at tort level. A digital temp gun is also good to have to spot check temps around the enclosure.
This all sounds very daunting but they are common mistakes that we have all made because pet shops know very little about tort care but are happy to sell unsuitable and unsafe equipment for profit. Tom's information will give you much more detail on how to improve things for your tort, I've just tried to highlight the main things I can see in your pics.

You'll find www.thetortisetable.org.uk useful for improving diet. Carrots shouldn't be a regular food, and may not be, but chunks of food can cause choking (even in larger species).
Hope that helps but ask as many questions as you like to clarify anything.

Thank you for the advice, looks lime I need to do a little work then. Just a few points if you can please clarify.

I can sort the light housing, water bowl easily.

The tortoisetable.org recommend a 50/50 topsoil and playsand mix, however people are saying not to use sand.

I've been using the compressed grass pellets and wood shavings (not straw) which both advertise being specifically for tortoise, are either of these OK?? If not would the a mix of topsoil and wood chippings be ok? ( Again both from a reptile shop?

Also the link says the mix uv and heat bulbs are OK to use, is this no longer correct? I was planning to get the UV strip in 8-10month when the bulb needs replacing.

With the thermostat, the stip is; only on there as a loose guide, I use digital thermometers to do regular checks on the temperature.

Lastly with the food, it's a red pepper we have in her buld, I was advised not to cut them up too small as they can try to swallow whole instead if biting. Is this correct?

 

[Tom]

The tortoisetable.org recommend a 50/50 topsoil and playsand mix, however people are saying not to use sand.

That is wrong. Neither soil, nor sand should ever be used as tortoise substrate. This is explained in detail in the linked thread and again in the care sheet.

I've been using the compressed grass pellets and wood shavings (not straw) which both advertise being specifically for tortoise, are either of these OK?? If not would the a mix of topsoil and wood chippings be ok? ( Again both from a reptile shop?

No. Soil should never be used. Compressed grass pellets are unsuitable because they are too dry, will mold when damp (your substrate needs to be damp), and are hard for babies to walk on. See the threads for the correct substrates to use.

Also the link says the mix uv and heat bulbs are OK to use, is this no longer correct? I was planning to get the UV strip in 8-10month when the bulb needs replacing.

Mercury vapor bulbs are specifically recommend against in the thread. Scroll to the bottom of the thread for the heating and lighting break down. Most MVBs are not going to be making any UV in 8-10 months, but they will cause significant pyramiding on a growing young tortoise in that time.

With the thermostat, the stip is; only on there as a loose guide, I use digital thermometers to do regular checks on the temperature.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Thermostats are used to control the ambient temperature in the enclosure. Temperatures should be checked with a thermometer periodically.

Lastly with the food, it's a red pepper we have in her buld, I was advised not to cut them up too small as they can try to swallow whole instead if biting. Is this correct?

A little red bell pepper once in a while is fine, but it should not be a staple. You were advised correctly about not cutting the pieces too small.

 

[CurtisM]

Thank you for your help, if I question please don't take this as being argumentative, i'm just making sure i'm understood.

I've started to make some changes as pertour advice. Please see attached, and will continue to make improvements.

For the substrate, i've used the cococ chol mentions on the forum. The bags said to dampen this. Is this correct? I dont want it to create any mold

 

[Tom]

Thank you for your help, if I question please don't take this as being argumentative, i'm just making sure i'm understood.

I've started to make some changes as pertour advice. Please see attached, and will continue to make improvements.

For the substrate, i've used the cococ chol mentions on the forum. The bags said to dampen this. Is this correct? I dont want it to create any mold

Curtis, questions are welcome! The more you ask the better you will understand how to care for your tortoise, and that is the goal.

Use a thick layer of coco coir, make it and keep it damp, and hand pack it firmly. Its too fluffy when its just loose. Keep it damp by dumping water into the substrate periodically. How much water and how often varies with every enclosure, and seasonally too. You have to go by feel. Don't let it dry out, but don't keep it sopping wet either.

We use the coir because it doesn't mold or grow fungus, but your wooden enclosure is another story. In time the constant moisture will rot it. This is why it is best to go with a large expanded PVC enclosure instead of wood. You also need to close in the top if you want this to work, and you need all four heating and lighting elements.

 

[Lyn W]

Thank you for the advice, looks lime I need to do a little work then. Just a few points if you can please clarify.

I can sort the light housing, water bowl easily.

The tortoisetable.org recommend a 50/50 topsoil and playsand mix, however people are saying not to use sand.

I've been using the compressed grass pellets and wood shavings (not straw) which both advertise being specifically for tortoise, are either of these OK?? If not would the a mix of topsoil and wood chippings be ok? ( Again both from a reptile shop?

Also the link says the mix uv and heat bulbs are OK to use, is this no longer correct? I was planning to get the UV strip in 8-10month when the bulb needs replacing.

With the thermostat, the stip is; only on there as a loose guide, I use digital thermometers to do regular checks on the temperature.

Lastly with the food, it's a red pepper we have in her buld, I was advised not to cut them up too small as they can try to swallow whole instead if biting. Is this correct?

There is a lot of old information still being passed on in old books on other websites, social media, pet shops and some breeders etc. but you'll only get up to date information here from keepers with decades of experience - some of whom been involved in research. So make this your main source of advice.
Tom has answered everything and the thread he linked will give more detailed explanations. If you follow that your tort should thrive,

His head is a mystery unless it's an injury. When you soak him have you checked to see if there's anything stuck to the right of his head that may be uncomfortable for him? How long has he been holding head like that?

 

[CurtisM]

There is a lot of old information still being passed on in old books on other websites, social media, pet shops and some breeders etc. but you'll only get up to date information here from keepers with decades of experience - some of whom been involved in research. So make this your main source of advice.
Tom has answered everything and the thread he linked will give more detailed explanations. If you follow that your tort should thrive,

His head is a mystery unless it's an injury. When you soak him have you checked to see if there's anything stuck to the right of his head that may be uncomfortable for him? How long has he been holding head like that?

It seems to be a resting position, she's moving it around, stretching and retracting fine. I've had a very good look and nothing seems lodged, no scratches or damage to the shell. I think you are right, may have had a fall off the log or bowl and hurt it. She does love to climb!! I'll either bury or remove the log as a precaution.

 

[Lyn W]

It seems to be a resting position, she's moving it around, stretching and retracting fine. I've had a very good look and nothing seems lodged, no scratches or damage to the shell. I think you are right, may have had a fall off the log or bowl and hurt it. She does love to climb!! I'll either bury or remove the log as a precaution.

Terracotta plant saucers sunk level with the substrate are much easier and safer for them to access and exit. So get rid of the steep ones and I think sinking the log would be a good idea too and maybe building up banks around it