HELP needed ASAP (eggbound?)

[Tortoise]

I have a few questions for you all regarding my female red foot .She came to me last September, she is about 10-11yrs old and 9 inches carapace length.
She has been bred a few times recently and we found an egg a couple of days ago(Sunday)-we think it was this tortoise that laid it (Ruby) although there is another female in that pen and she too has been bred.
Neither female have laid before.

Ruby has been off food since and on 2 different days now-just sat motionless in one spot in her pen-she isn't eating or walking around etc-she is normally very active and curious and loves eating.

Seeing as we only found one egg and this egg weighed 50g, do you think she may have eggs stuck? or seeing as its her first time is this kind of thing normal?

We would appreciate any advice at this time as we don't want to lose her.

Thanks

 

[Yvonne G]

RE: HELP needed ASAP

Yes, she might be egg bound. You can try warming her up. Either sit her in warm water or place a light over her.

 

[Tortoise]

RE: HELP needed ASAP

Ok she is in a nice warm bath in her pen.
When should I worry?

my best veterinary college is 12 hr round trip so good to know when i should be taking that journey if necessary.
My local vet could x ray I assume.What about inducing drugs etc?(oxycotin??)

Sorry for all the questions I don't want to rush her yet i don't want to lose her through not acting when I should.
She is very very special and is the friendliest of all my tortoises

The egg aside from being huge looked ok nice smooth no extra calcification like I have read about etc.IT was laid deep down and very well packed in by her.

Not sure if that is relevant??

 

[tortadise]

Yeah I agree with Yvonne. Try some warm water soaks. 9" is a little on the cusp of having issues. I have a female a little bigger and she has some troubles laying the large typical red foot eggs. If she still is still and nothing happens in a day or so. Might have a trip to the vet for an x ray.

 

[Yvonne G]

Ocytocin doesn't work on all species of tortoise. I found that out when my vet tried it on a young Manouria tortoise. I don't know if it works on RF tortoises or not.

 

[tortadise]

Oxytocin can certainly stress the animal a great deal. Just depends on really if she looks like she is having trouble. sounds like she's on par with a young (or new to laying experience animal). Digging the nest is a good sign. She is showing signs of what she knows what she's doing. Lots of times I have females that take there sweet time over a week long span. Some others will lay all eggs at once.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks Kelly and Yvonne
I have placed her back in the nest area of her pen and will leave her a lone for a while.
Maybe I will keep bathing periodically here as I'm on my way out.
She did just poop in water so not sure if that is relevant either-it was well formed almost harder than usual.

A regular vet should be ok to do an x ray presumably-its the advice after that we may need to find elsewhere depending on results.

Thanks for the prompt responses-it is appreciated more than you know!!

Oh and these are cherry heads so size may be a little smaller at maturity??

 

[tortadise]

Ahhhh OK. Yeah perfectly fine size for a cherry. Even a northern red too. Just a couple youngsters I have seemed to struggle a little with the big eggs they lay. Sounds a OK to me. Just want for lethargy and extra teary eyes. Good luck hope they all come out and hatch. Also any vet can take it. you will be able to see if they are lodged or calcified upon radiographs. If still present in ovoduct (usually upper 1/3 right hand side of tortoise) then you should be fine. If the eggs are presently apparent towards the cloaca then I would wait a day or few before inducing and or breaking them through cloaca to expel. Everything should work out though. How's the pancake egg BTW?

---

Here is a leopard that still has eggs in her ova duct. If you so choose to get radiographs(X-Rays) this image would not be alarming to see. If they are bunched towards her tail then something should be done. I have faith in her that she will lay them though. She is still getting settled into her new home. If I move my reds to much they will actually skip a year laying at all. They like to be safe, secure, and settled. Its a good sign she is laying for yah.

 

[Tortoise]

Ahhhh OK. Yeah perfectly fine size for a cherry. Even a northern red too. Just a couple youngsters I have seemed to struggle a little with the big eggs they lay. Sounds a OK to me. Just want for lethargy and extra teary eyes. Good luck hope they all come out and hatch. Also any vet can take it. you will be able to see if they are lodged or calcified upon radiographs. If still present in ovoduct (usually upper 1/3 right hand side of tortoise) then you should be fine. If the eggs are presently apparent towards the cloaca then I would wait a day or few before inducing and or breaking them through cloaca to expel. Everything should work out though. How's the pancake egg BTW?

---

Here is a leopard that still has eggs in her ova duct. If you so choose to get radiographs(X-Rays) this image would not be alarming to see. If they are bunched towards her tail then something should be done. I have faith in her that she will lay them though. She is still getting settled into her new home. If I move my reds to much they will actually skip a year laying at all. They like to be safe, secure, and settled. Its a good sign she is laying for yah.

---

Thanks Kelly
Really interesting to see the x ray image thanks.
My pancake eggs (she laid two on march 19th) are still in the incubator.
One still looks bad and smells a bit but hasn't worsened and the other is clearish and chalky white and no smell etc so I leave them be for now.
I'm not really hopeful and I know I'm being stubborn and not getting rid of my first eggs ever unless they go bang!!!
I had better egg news last weekend-my russians laid 7 eggs for me and so far they look great at 10 days into incubation-I think one already has veins.
So its been a productive few weeks so far and considering id never seen a tortoise egg before until the pancakes laid I feel fortunate i now have 10 eggs to watch over in total!!

 

[Tortoise]

i have an xray but im on cell phone i could email it to yvonne or kelly if you send your emails to me.
there is 1 egg but vet and i do not know if its stuck?
i am going back to vet in one hour to decide what to do
not sure howw to attach imagetotf on my phone

 

[EricIvins]

The deal with Oxytocin is this - If you catch the animal while it still has the chemical cues to lay, it may be successful. If you dose tha animal when those chemical cues are gone, it will not help in any way, shape, or form.

There is a window before and after the actual lay date where Oxytocin will work. Once that window passes, it won't work at all. It will work on all Tortoise species if used correctly....

 

[Tortoise]

The deal with Oxytocin is this - If you catch the animal while it still has the chemical cues to lay, it may be successful. If you dose tha animal when those chemical cues are gone, it will not help in any way, shape, or form.

There is a window before and after the actual lay date where Oxytocin will work. Once that window passes, it won't work at all. It will work on all Tortoise species if used correctly....

any idea on what that window of opportunity is?
we could either try manipulating egg manually or the oxytocin.
the egg is nr the pelvis and does appear large.

 

[Tortoise]

Here is the x ray taken today.
We were unsure of Oxytocin dosage so are awaiting advice on that.
I did come home with a calcium shot That I can give regardless
I hope to pick up some Oxytocin tomorrow if we can work out a safe dose.
The doses we saw online were not far off what a vet would normally give a horse which seems high.

 

[Tortoise]

Hoping someone will comment on the x ray image taken yesterday and position of egg etc?We worked out size of egg and it is a fraction smaller than the one laid on Sunday.

Thanks

 

[tortadise]

She still have it in her I suppose?

 

[Tortoise]

She still have it in her I suppose?

Hi
Yes she does but she ate quite a large meal last night which was a relief.
The vet college would have seen us today but they are a 10 hr round trip away so I wasn't wanting to go unless I was sure we needed to.
The vets there hadn't yet viewed the x ray so I wanted to know what they thought before taking her all that way.

We worked out size of her egg and its a fraction smaller than the one she laid on Sunday so I would think that she could physically lay it??

Gave her calcium yesterday too by injection.

 

[Hustler]

Wow thats crazy to see
Sorry didnt see this till just now.
I hope everything goes well for her, And you
I tend not to stress too much on the reds and cherries as long as they have a decent corner with a good deep area to lay Ive never had a problem. I have a culprit or 2 that will lay right on top of the substrate wont even bother with test holes.
My guess is she is being shy or she was disturbed? Ive had females lay one or two then go days even weeks before laying the rest, It freaks me out but they all cant nest like the textbooks
Also i have a female cherry not much longer than ruby that laid these guys last month so i dont think size is an issue

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks for that Mel.

That is reassuring to hear!
She has a 10 inch substrate depth and I popped a halogen over the area too in case she wanted more soil warmth.
We checked soil temps further down too and I think all is good in that respect.

Just odd to see her quiet and reserved-very unlike her!!!
She has never had so many baths too!!!

thanks