help (Elongated Tortoise with MBD)

[loriluvsbonkers]

My name is Lori Samuels. My tortoises name is Bonkers.
I appreciate and thank you for your time reviewing my situation. I’m at my wits end.
I live in a small town called Silt in Colorado. My now ex husband bought Bonkers from a reptile Expo in or around 2003 in New Jersey where I use to live. He was told she was a Elongated yellow headed tortoise. Which I found out a few years ago they are a “endangered species”. I have had her solely in my care since 2007 after divorce.
When I first meet Bonkers she was kept in a big glass tank and fed only lettuce. Her shell was not normal looking even back then.
Since about 2010 I have not had her in any kind of tank, cage or truly any enclosure. She has always had her own bed room to walk around freely. She’s alway had a heat basking light, a UVB light, and a hiding hut. She’s always been very active. She isn’t the best eater though.
In about 2008 she got some wounds on her legs and side of face. I took her to a vet about 2 hours away. The vet wasn’t sure of her breed and didn’t know what kind of tortoise to compare her to regarding care. She gave me some cream to put on her and filed her shell and the wounds healed nicely. Then about 3 years ago the wounds came back in different area. So I took her to another vet I found about an hour away.
Again this vet wasn’t sure of her breed and the type of care that was needed for her.
This vet gave me a list of dos and don’t that I followed. As time went by I have done Internet searching and found that the care sheet she gave me was most likely incorrect.
Up till about 2 months ago, Bonkers was doing “just fine” but to my feelings, not as great as she should. I have always wondered if she is happy. So about 2 months ago I noticed her (if she is even a she) front left leg to be swollen. So I searched for another vet and found one which stated she too had a tortoise and thinks she could help me. When I got to vets everyone was so excited to see an endangered species. The vet kept her for the day and ran blood work. She sent her picture to a friend at CSU in Denver and they weren’t sure of her breed cause of the shape of her shell and that elongated tortoises max weight was about 9 lbs. Bonkers weights 13.6 lbs
She said blood work was normal and didn’t know why her leg was swollen. She gave me suggestions on changing her habitat. Which I did.
I added a humidifier, adding a area with moist moss and different kinds of foods. I gave her more time to walk around our house which is hardwood floors compared to the carpet, rugs and towels in her bed room. Vet thought that would help with the swelling of her front left leg. I’m not sure if it did or if it just time that the swelling went down. Although I have continue with the adjustments. It does seem like she’s not eating as much. She’s always been a real picky eater.
I do bath her every other day where she’s drink water, then pee and after a while poop. I change the water every 20-30 minutes after she has drank.
So the other day I have noticed her back right leg in swollen and seems to have a lump or “rolled up tissue” where thigh meets shell.
I have taken her back to vet and once again, not much help.
Honestly, I deeply care for Bonkers. I’ve had her for many years but I’m really hoping to find some one to take over her care. I’m pretty sure she’ll out live me. I do the best I think I can but I know there has to be someone that will help her get healthy & happy. I had to put casters on her to help her get around and also put nail grips on her. They are these tiny rubber things that go over her nails

 

[TeamZissou]

Welcome to the forum Lori! Can't believe you registered in 2013 but are just now making your first post.

Bonkers appears to be a redfoot tortoise, Chelonoidis carbonaria. There is no such species called "elongated yellow headed tortoise." There is an elongated tortoise Indotesudo elongata, and separately, the (somewhat close) yellow-foot tortoise, Chelonoidis denticulata. If you could post a photo of Bonkers' head that would help.

Bonkers has a pretty severe case of metabolic bone disease (MBD), which comes from lack of calcium and vitamin D3, which gets made through UVB exposure. Though you may have a UVB bulb mounted over Bonkers, the level of UVB matters a lot and was probably not intense enough over the past several years.

MBD is pretty painful, so increasing Bonkers' calcium intake and getting a proper UVB light over her is crucial to help stop the pain. The swelling that you are seeing is probably related.

A vet might be able to check the calcium and phosphorus levels in Bonkers' blood. They may also prescribe a liquid calcium supplement. Though, if the vets you saw so far did not immediately recognize this as MBD, they do not know much about tortoises and you probably want to find another vet.

Here's a calcium supplement you can get and start giving Bonkers on her food each day:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013F2IHO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

You also need a high quality UVB tube style light mounted in the enclosure:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084ZLQG81/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

You also need a Solarmeter to measure the UVB output, which is dependent on how high you mount the light:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076H1T9YJ/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Here's the redfoot care sheet for housing info:

Redfoot Tortoise Care Sheet

NOTE: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and this should not be used as cold hard proof of how to raise a redfoot. I used information from great keepers on this forum to put everything together. This care...

tortoiseforum.org

@ZEROPILOT @zovick

 

[Yvonne G]

Walking around on hardwood flooring is not good for Bonkers, even with the rubber nail tips. The MBD is why she can't get up on all fours and walk normally. Like Zizzou said, it's a painful disease.

It's good that Bonkers has her own room to walk around in, however, she really would be much better off if you made her an enclosure in that room and gave her a substrate that you can moisten. Because you have dedicated a whole room to the tortoise, you would be able to make a nice, big enclosure, line it with plastic to keep the moist substrate from wrecking your floors.

Once we see more pictures and are sure of her species, we'll be better able to give you the best info and help.

 

[loriluvsbonkers]

Thank you so much for replying. But now I was told a third species she could be. First it was elongated tortoise, then a desert tortoise and now the species that you say you think. I was putting calcium powder on her food and then one of the vet said that I was giving her too much calcium. This is where everything gets confusing because one person will say this tortoise needs to hibernate and only eats vegetables or eats meats and vegetables another person says no they don’t hibernate and the only eat vegetables and don’t give them any proteins don’t give too much calcium. Feed this or don’t feed that and I can’t keep track and I never know it’s actually working because it takes so long to show results.

 

[loriluvsbonkers]

Thank you so much for replying. But now I was told a third species she could be. First it was elongated tortoise, then a desert tortoise and now the species that you say you think. I was putting calcium powder on her food and then one of the vet said that I was giving her too much calcium. This is where everything gets confusing because one person will say this tortoise needs to hibernate and only eats vegetables or eats meats and vegetables another person says no they don’t hibernate and the only eat vegetables and don’t give them any proteins don’t give too much calcium. Feed this or don’t feed that and I can’t keep track and I never know it’s actually working because it takes so long to show results.

 

[loriluvsbonkers]

Blood work

 

[loriluvsbonkers]

I was also told she/he could be sulcata 😩
I don’t know what to do

 

[Lyn W]

I was also told she/he could be sulcata 😩
I don’t know what to do

It's hard to tell size in the pictures but I don't think s/he's a sullie, but if you can post a picture of the tail members can tell you if you have a male or female.
Pictures of his plastron will also help members ID his species.
My tort has his own room and I cover the floor with a thick rubber matting to make it easier on his legs.

 

[loriluvsbonkers]

Mat sounds like a great idea
Pictures aren’t coming out good when posted.
Question. If she is in pain, which I feel so horrible about, why does she move around so much? She can be very active. I know when I’m in pain I don’t wanna move at all.

 

[TeamZissou]

I was also told she/he could be sulcata 😩
I don’t know what to do

I was incorrect in my first reply. Now seeing her head, she is definitely an elongated tortoise, Indotestudo elongata.

They are indeed omnivorous and eat fruit, leafy greens, and worms/slugs/carrion. Being a forest species, the linked redfoot care sheet gives a good overview. They are not a species that brumates (hibernates).

 

[TeamZissou]

Blood work

This doesn't help a lot with the MBD diagnosis because you need to know the calcium level as well as the phosphate level.

Alkaline phosphatase (ALKP) may be raised due to the tissue damage (swollen leg).

Ultimately, none of us are vets, so you really need to see one who knows tortoises. Here's a list for CO:

Colorado

Tortoise Veterinarians in Colorado Listed Alphabetically by City Colorado Springs Lena Roeder, DVM Dublin Animal Hospital 888 Dublin Blvd #A Colorado Springs, CO 80918 Tel: (719) 593-1336 Englewood Dr. John Summar Homestead Animal Hospital 6900 S. Holly Circle Englewood, CO 80112 Tel...

tortoiseforum.org

Until then, it would be best to keep her warm (80F) which will help with digestion and the immune system. Getting the proper UV lighting setup within an enclosure, and supplementing with calcium will help too.

 

[loriluvsbonkers]

I will call. I’ve emailed and called about 17 different places now. One place told me to go to the vet that was on Animal Planet. That will cost big $$$$. But I did call and no one returned my call. Another place wants me to drive her to Virginia. That’s way too long in a car for her and there’s no way I could get her on a plane legally

Again Thank You
If you find anything else or need to add, please do

 

[Lyn W]

Mat sounds like a great idea
Pictures aren’t coming out good when posted.
Question. If she is in pain, which I feel so horrible about, why does she move around so much? She can be very active. I know when I’m in pain I don’t wanna move at all.

I don't know about the species, but I believe that generally females have shorter stubbier tails, so I think you have a female tort.
I'm not really qualified to answer your question but there are plenty of members with medical knowledge.

 

[Lyn W]

I will call. I’ve emailed and called about 17 different places now. One place told me to go to the vet that was on Animal Planet. That will cost big $$$$. But I did call and no one returned my call. Another place wants me to drive her to Virginia. That’s way too long in a car for her and there’s no way I could get her on a plane legally

Again Thank You
If you find anything else or need to add, please do

If it helps you narrow it down, most general vets have little knowledge about tort health, so a reptile/tortoise specialist would be able to help you most.

 

[loriluvsbonkers]

I know. And that’s the problem☹️ I live in a small valley. I have traveled as far as 2hrs one way to see a vet that wasn’t helpful.

 

[Yvonne G]

Here's a care sheet for the elongated tortoise:

Elongated Tortoise Information And Care - Reptiles Magazine

Though not a common species in tortoise collections|!!| more and more herpetoculturists are discovering the elongated tortoise and inviting them into their lives.

reptilesmagazine.com

So you're not as confused, it's best to stick with one site and don't look around for other information. We don't have too many elongated keepers on the Forum, but we DO have a section dedicated to them:

Elongated and Forsten's tortoises

tortoiseforum.org

You might get some information by reading through the posted threads in that section.

 

[Yvonne G]

Do you know how she's getting the leg wounds?

In my opinion this tortoise doesn't need a vet, but rather, she needs to be set up in the correct environment for the Elongated species. Once you have everything right for her she will be a happy camper!

 

[pacific chelonians]

From looking at her I have to say that it is 100% a female elongated tortoise that has mbd but and I could be wrong from her behavior I think that she may be carrying eggs this is what my life went to she is not eating as much as normal seems the be alittle chubby under the legs and she keeps hurting her legs maybe from trying to dig a nest on the hard wood she is definitely big enough to and if you want to find her a new home iv always got room honestly I could be really wrong but it’s a thought what do you guys think

 

[Yvonne G]

From looking at her I have to say that it is 100% a female elongated tortoise that has mbd but and I could be wrong from her behavior I think that she may be carrying eggs this is what my life went to she is not eating as much as normal seems the be alittle chubby under the legs and she keeps hurting her legs maybe from trying to dig a nest on the hard wood she is definitely big enough to and if you want to find her a new home iv always got room honestly I could be really wrong but it’s a thought what do you guys think

I think that's very perceptive, and now that you've mentioned it, I agree with you!

 

[pacific chelonians]

I think that's very perceptive, and now that you've mentioned it, I agree with you!

Ya it sounds like her problem are coming from that