Help! Desert tortoise runny nose

[Robinbirdlady]

My adult desert tortoise has a clear runny nose. Yesterday I heard what I thought was a little grumbly breathing and saw one bubble come out of his nose. But today it’s just a runny nose. I live in Long Beach California so the weather is pretty nice right now 73 today and lowest at night is 54. He sleeps in a large dog house with Timmothy hay in it. I plan to call Dr. Greek ( our local vet who sees tortoises) this week and make an appointment. But in the mean time is there anything I should do? Are these temps to low at night? Should he have a heat source? If so can someone tell me exactly what to get? I’ll get it right away and set it up. There is just so much information on the links I was sent that mom confused about what is a safe heat source.
Attached is a photo of his home. I do cover his door at night to protect him.

 

[Tom]

Its definitely too cold, and coastal weather makes them sick. Get the tortoise heated up ASAP. You need a heated night box.

In this thread, I show pics and explain how to do it for temperate species like DTs:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions are welcome.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

Its definitely too cold, and coastal weather makes them sick. Get the tortoise heated up ASAP. You need a heated night box.

In this thread, I show pics and explain how to do it for temperate species like DTs:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions are welcome.

Thank you. This makes me very worried. We quick found this habitat heater. Is this a good place to start? We can pick one up from pet smart tomorrow. If you have a better recommendation let me know. As far as adding the basking lights we are looking into it.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

The one I am looking at is 18x18 called

Zoo Med ReptiTherm Habitat Heater, 40W​

Found it on chewy. Does this one seem ok?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

The one I am looking at is 18x18 called

Zoo Med ReptiTherm Habitat Heater, 40W​

Found it on chewy. Does this one seem ok?

This could be underpowered for your needs. If the kennel is large enough can you fit in a *mini* oil-filled radiator from the nearest Walmart (you will need to make a border or shelf to prevent it from being knocked out)?

Other option is to use a heat mat + overhead heating. From the top you will need a radiant heat panel or chicken brooder heat panel and a heat mat (pig blanket like) from below. Robust heat mat options are Stanfield or Kane.

Either option will require a thermostat (but with an oil-filled radiator you can use a built-in for a while). Both heating solutions work equally good and outlined under the link Tom sent you earlier.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

Thank you so much. We are on it. I’m hoping to get him in the vet today. This morning I could hear the wheezing or kind of gurgling and when I put my hand on his shell I can feel it. I am worried sick. But I don’t see a lot of snot or puffy eyes so hopefully it’s just the beginning. I spend a lot of time watching him so I know this is new.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

This could be underpowered for your needs. If the kennel is large enough can you fit in a *mini* oil-filled radiator from the nearest Walmart (you will need to make a border or shelf to prevent it from being knocked out)?

Other option is to use a heat mat + overhead heating. From the top you will need a radiant heat panel or chicken brooder heat panel and a heat mat (pig blanket like) from below. Robust heat mat options are Stanfield or Kane.

Either option will require a thermostat (but with an oil-filled radiator you can use a built-in for a while). Both heating solutions work equally good and outlined under the link Tom sent you earlier.

Ok we found this one on Amazon that we were thinking of mounting on the side of the wall because the roof is a bit high. And using the one mentioned above for below. The reason is because it is basically the same watt as the better brands mentioned. Also of course a reptile thermostat. I’m also thinking of insulating the roof of his home. But unfortunately the bottom mat comes tomorrow and the side one comes Wednesday. I’m thinking of bringing him inside my house at night in a box until the stuff arrives. Any thoughts on this first attempt for warming things up? Any suggestions are welcome

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok we found this one on Amazon that we were thinking of mounting on the side of the wall because the roof is a bit high. And using the one mentioned above for below. The reason is because it is basically the same watt as the better brands mentioned. Also of course a reptile thermostat. I’m also thinking of insulating the roof of his home. But unfortunately the bottom mat comes tomorrow and the side one comes Wednesday. I’m thinking of bringing him inside my house at night in a box until the stuff arrives. Any thoughts on this first attempt for warming things up? Any suggestions are welcome

Bringing him in for the night is a good idea. If you can keep him at 80F-85F for the whole night - this should help him to withstand the infection. Perhaps a space heater in a small room (like closet or bathroom) can help with that.

Also, you can soak him in a lukewarm (90F) water in the morning for 15-30 minutes. Water should be up to a level where bottom and top shell meet and kept warm all the time. Hydration is important for their overall health.

I didn't expect that you order both heat mats so soon. I apologize, I should have mentioned that rheostat models are more expensive and models without it work just fine. When Kane mat arrives - it's better to put it on the floor as they are "heavy duty".

 

[Yvonne G]

He doesn't need a vet or medication. He only needs to live in a warm environment. Heat his shelter up to 85°F day and night until the discharge stops. Then you can allow the night temp to get a little lower, but I'd still shoot for 80°F for a while. Eventually you can set the thermometer to not go below 70°F at night, but not for a while yet.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

Thank you!

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Robinbirdlady .....
@Yvonne G is giving you better advice than you are going to get from Dr. Greek.
This is what is happening... Since you live on the coast there is high levels of humidity, this humidity is great if your tortoise is kept warm. If you allow the tortoise to be cold and in the cold with those humidity levels your asking for a respiratory issue. Desert tortoises will die in Humid and Cold weather, without supplemental heat. I'm not sure how your relationship is with your tort but you do not want to cause ANY stress until this issue is resolved. Bringing the tort in and out at night may be stressful, again not sure if your tort is comfortable with you and this will cause no stress. The best way is either "Oil Filled Radiant Heater" because it does not dry out the air like an electric heater does. The Kane or Stanfield mats are the same, non desiccating. Living in Long Beach with a Desert Tortoise you need to provide a place that is warm always (except Brumation) and monitor it every day to make sure nothing has failed. If you provide only heat under the tort they will sit on it too long trying to warm up, this is why heat above is needed as well. If you use a radiant heater though the entire "House" will be warm, this is the best. Glad you came here to ask and feel free to ask "Anything" there are no wrong questions.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

@Robinbirdlady .....
@Yvonne G is giving you better advice than you are going to get from Dr. Greek.
This is what is happening... Since you live on the coast there is high levels of humidity, this humidity is great if your tortoise is kept warm. If you allow the tortoise to be cold and in the cold with those humidity levels your asking for a respiratory issue. Desert tortoises will die in Humid and Cold weather, without supplemental heat. I'm not sure how your relationship is with your tort but you do not want to cause ANY stress until this issue is resolved. Bringing the tort in and out at night may be stressful, again not sure if your tort is comfortable with you and this will cause no stress. The best way is either "Oil Filled Radiant Heater" because it does not dry out the air like an electric heater does. The Kane or Stanfield mats are the same, non desiccating. Living in Long Beach with a Desert Tortoise you need to provide a place that is warm always (except Brumation) and monitor it every day to make sure nothing has failed. If you provide only heat under the tort they will sit on it too long trying to warm up, this is why heat above is needed as well. If you use a radiant heater though the entire "House" will be warm, this is the best. Glad you came here to ask and feel free to ask "Anything" there are no wrong questions.

I really appreciate this explanation and wish I was told this prior.
Ok so I am only bringing him inside at night because I’m waiting on the mats. They are hopefully arriving today or tomorrow. So this is temporary because it’s still cold at night. He is new to me as in we got him while he was burmating so it’s only been a few months. But I must of lucked out because he is really sweet and seems comfortable with us, especially me. I am a stay at home mom most of the time so I actually spend hours outside with him. He probably likes. E because I feed him a lot. So hopefully he is comfortable and not stressed with me bringing him inside a few nights. I mean how would I know? It’s not like a dog. He just got cozy and fell asleep last night in the 85 degree super small bathroom.

As far as the heat source goes. We have ordered those two mats that are posted separately above. I am afraid to do the oil heater or the incandescent lights because of fires. Would it work to mount those two mats to the walls? Will that provide the heat without making him want to stay on the mat all day? We put insulation on the roof last night so I can’t mount the mat to the ceiling. If this doesn’t work please tell me. Should one be on the wall and one on the floor? Both on the wall? Or do these mats not provide the correct heat? I will absolutely check the temp with the reptile temperature gage I got. Open to all the help. I am doing everything to fix this situation as fast as I can.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello! Please, don't worry. We will help you with any issues you might face with keeping your tortoise.

First of all I believe he appreciates the warmth at night. This helps him to get well.

Since you have two mats, one should be on the floor to gently heat him from below and another one on the wall to give some heat from above and side. Both mats are safe to use and won't burn him. Using a heat mat on the wall is not as effective as radiant heat panel on the ceiling, but since the summer is approaching - this should be fine.
As he will get an idea of the heated shelter, he will use it to warm up during the day as much as necessary, going to graze outside and coming back. But you still have to check that he is back in the dog house at night (sometimes tortoises fall asleep somewhere in the yard).

 

[Robinbirdlady]

Ok can someone send me a link for a radiant heat panel? I’d like to buy the correct thing once since these things are super expensive.

I make sure he is in his home locked up every single night because I am worried about something getting him. So that won’t be a problem.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok can someone send me a link for a radiant heat panel? I’d like to buy the correct thing once since these things are super expensive.

I make sure he is in his home locked up every single night because I am worried about something getting him. So that won’t be a problem.

Chicken brooder panels aren't very expensive but reptile heat panels are. Here is one example:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/producers-pride-brooder-and-coop-heater (I can't swear on their reliability, though - TractorSupply have changed manufacturer not so long ago).

Your current setup with two heat mats is going to be good enough, so it's not necessary to buy new equipment. So it's better to save your money and plan to build an insulated night box instead of the dog house or redesign and insulate the one you have. The trouble with dog houses is that they are very tall (more than tortoise needs) and often don't provide enough insulation (as they are designed for the furry warm-blooded animals) and sometimes it's hard to clean them up.

And once again - please, don't worry. Bringing your tortoise inside for the night is totally fine and you can keep doing this. As you'll have the heat mats and a thermostat - check that temperatures are fine and train him to sleep there.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Robinbirdlady ...
Great job, you are going to make a great tort mommy. In my experience Desert Tortoises tend to like females way more than males. The way you find out if it's stressful is the runny nares (nose) will increase in mucus and then color change of the mucus. It sounds like you have a way better handle on the care and equipment you'll need for this to be successful, it is frustrating but well worth it. The more 1 on 1 time you can spend with him the better it will be all around, you'll be able to notice changes easier, he will have no issues being in your company, and of course it will make him a lot more comfortable and less stressed. PLEASE keep asking any questions people like @Alex and the Redfoot know their stuff and spend countless hours helping others tortoises for just that, to help other tortoises.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

Thank you so much for your kind words. This all has all been so helpful. Ok everyone I am attaching two options for set ups with my mats. I have a feeling the red one should be against the wall because I know they need more room to get off the mat when they feel hot. But let me know. I will be checking the temperature for the rest of the day and throughout the night. What should I set it for to clock off at? 85 or 80? @Alex and the Redfoot @Yvonne G @Tom. I am also open to additional ideas. I just want what’s best for Alfred

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much for your kind words. This all has all been so helpful. Ok everyone I am attaching two options for set ups with my mats. I have a feeling the red one should be against the wall because I know they need more room to get off the mat when they feel hot. But let me know. I will be checking the temperature for the rest of the day and throughout the night. What should I set it for to clock off at? 85 or 80? @Alex and the Redfoot @Yvonne G @Tom. I am also open to additional ideas. I just want what’s best for Alfred

Kane mats don't work very well mounted on the wall. Better to have it on the floor, but the box needs to be large enough for the tortoise to get off of the mat, but still be inside in the warmth. I don't make boxes any smaller than 4x4 feet on top, which is about 40x40 inches inside. Then with an 18x28 inch Kane mat, they have 22 inches to get off of it.

 

[Robinbirdlady]

Kane mats don't work very well mounted on the wall. Better to have it on the floor, but the box needs to be large enough for the tortoise to get off of the mat, but still be inside in the warmth. I don't make boxes any smaller than 4x4 feet on top, which is about 40x40 inches inside. Then with an 18x28 inch Kane mat, they have 22 inches to get off of it.

The I’ll just swap this Kane mat out for an 18x18 if I can find it. I’m probably not making a larger box. He goes sleeps and then comes out and wanders our giant backyard. I won’t have him burmate in this box. Any suggestions on a wall mounted heat source? Besides one that I have to build a protection around it.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

As he's sick, 85F is a better temperature until he gets better. After that 80F is fine.

You are right, that Kane mat leaves no space to get out of it and cool down and 18x18 will fit better.

Radiant heat panels will work better than mats when attached to the wall (either Vivarium Electronics or chicken brooder panels). As a suggestion - can you build something like a coffee table to put it into the dog house and make a "false ceiling" over the heat mat and attach a heat panel there?