Hello. I'm new

[Stormy]

My husband and I just got our very first tortoise. We have both had turtles before, and I have taken care of tortoises through my work in the past. We just acquired our sulcata baby one week ago today. He is officially 3 weeks old. He has an indoor box and a large outdoor enclosure with a hide box, a cinder block retreat, grass for grazing, dirt for digging, I have hibiscus bushes in pots to provide shade and snacks. He has access to water at all times. So far he has been very active early morning and late evening. Spends the night and mid day in his brick home. I've been lurking on this forum for about 3 months while I studied and learned as much as I could, but since we finally got our baby I wanted to make an account and start participating.

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome!

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hi

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. Your baby should be housed in a closed chamber until approximately two years old. Very short, 1/2 hour a day he can be outside until around a year old, then it can be longer and back into a closed chamber. Please read the caresheets, closed chamber thread and make adjustments. They need a high humidity of 80% and temps no lower then 80 day and night with a 95-100 basking spot. They also need a daily warm water soak and fed as much as they want to eat twice a day until around 2 years then once a day is find. More research needs to be done on this forum, sorry.

 

[Stormy]

I'm aware of the closed chamber that this forum recommends, I've decided that what's best for my baby is to simulate nature as closely as possible. I want my hatchling outdoors and eating grass as much as possible. The breeder I found also is of the same mindset and raises his babies outside on grass from day one. We are fortunate to live in a warm and humid climate that allowed this to be possible. My outdoor enclosure had two humid hides and the one my hatchling has be using overnight is under ground. I have been soaking it twice daily to be sure it's well hydrated. So far so good. I hope that there is room here for someone with a different point of view.

 

[Rachael403]

Welcome!

 

[teresaf]

I'm aware of the closed chamber that this forum recommends, I've decided that what's best for my baby is to simulate nature as closely as possible. I want my hatchling outdoors and eating grass as much as possible. The breeder I found also is of the same mindset and raises his babies outside on grass from day one. We are fortunate to live in a warm and humid climate that allowed this to be possible. My outdoor enclosure had two humid hides and the one my hatchling has be using overnight is under ground. I have been soaking it twice daily to be sure it's well hydrated. So far so good. I hope that there is room here for someone with a different point of view.

Welcome! Sure, as long as you keep an open mind and realize that you are the proud owner of a baby sulcata for exactly 3 weeks whereas @Tom and @Yvonne G have had hundreds of tortoises for decades soooo maybe they know better than you(or your breeder)?

You must keep in mind that the breeder isn't always right. We have people bringing tortoises on here telling us how their breeder told them to raise it in a certain way and a month later it dies. We hate seeing that. Maybe the breeder is cheap and don't want to buy food for them. You don't honestly think that a tortoise is better off eating grass and a few weeds than a wide range of fruits, vegetables, weeds, Mazuri tortoise food, calcium supplements, etc...? Does grass even have calories? Who knows maybe your breeders never raised a baby tortoise... They could have gotten their adults from other breeders and started breeding them. Of course they won't tell YOU that.

There is a lot of new information that has been gathered about raising tortoises in the last dozen years. I've used the techniques on this forum and have healthy tortoises for it.... If you take the combined knowledge of all the Breeders and owners on this forum.... they beat your one breeder. Hands down.

 

[Tom]

I'm aware of the closed chamber that this forum recommends, I've decided that what's best for my baby is to simulate nature as closely as possible. I want my hatchling outdoors and eating grass as much as possible. The breeder I found also is of the same mindset and raises his babies outside on grass from day one. We are fortunate to live in a warm and humid climate that allowed this to be possible. My outdoor enclosure had two humid hides and the one my hatchling has be using overnight is under ground. I have been soaking it twice daily to be sure it's well hydrated. So far so good. I hope that there is room here for someone with a different point of view.

Hello and welcome.

Where are you? Different points of view are welcome, but please don't close your mind to decades of experience from people who have already done what you are doing now and already know what the result will be.

Unless you are in the Sahel region of Africa, I don't see how leaving your baby outside all the time simulates nature. What happens for this species in nature is warm temps day and night and a 3-4 month rainy season with soupy humidity. That is the environment that babies hatch into. The fact is that no one has studied baby sulcatas in the wild, and most of what we know is speculation based on what we see in captivity. How can we "simulate nature" when no one really knows what happens in nature for these babies? Decades of trial and error, failure and success, have taught me what works best for this species. I've experimented with keeping and raising these babies every which way you can imagine, and also observed what happens with other people's methods around the country and around the world. Many of my experiments are documented here on this forum.

Let me demonstrate my point another way: I have a friend named Tomas Diagne. He lives in Senegal Africa and he founded the African Cheloninan Institute. You can look him up on an internet search. Sulcatas are extinct in the wild in several African countries and were nearly extinct in Senegal too. Estimates in Senegal were down to 40 animals left in the wild. Tomas began captive breeding locally acquired sulcatas and raising their babies for repatriation into the wild. There were a lot of legal, political and veterinary hoops to jump through, but he did it! Mind you, he is in the natural range for this species. In his first attempts at raising babies outside all day, as you are doing, he ran into major issues and had to make quite a few "adjustments" to his captive housing strategies to get the new babies to survive and thrive.

To further drive home the point, we have the same issue right here at home with people attempting to raise CA desert tortoises the "natural" way outdoors in their back yards. They are given this info by breeders and "experts". The vast majority of captive hatched DT babies die as a result of this ignorance of what these babies really need. Same with sulcata babies. The care info dispensed for this species for the last 30 years has been based on incorrect assumptions of how they live in the wild, and it is wrong.

About this time, you are probably thinking that you should never have joined this forum, and you should have never said anything about what you are doing. I sincerely hope you don't take this that way. I hope you can take this info for what it really is: Knowledgeable, experienced people trying to prevent you from making mistakes that they themselves have made in the past. We don't want to argue or hurt anyone's feelings, but we also don't want to see any baby tortoises come to harm. Having them outside all day and night harms them. Even in tropical areas of the world, I answer a constant stream of personal messages asking for help after their babies are sick and dying from trying to do what you are doing. Outdoors full time is great for adults in the right climate with the right set up. Outside full time for babies is not so great.

I hope you are open to discussing it. Please ask questions. Take me to task and make me explain how I know what I know. Give me the chance to help you understand what I already know. I learned these things the hard way. You don't have to.

 

[Yvonne G]

. . . I hope that there is room here for someone with a different point of view.

You certainly ARE more than welcome here. Not everyone here has the same point of view. And only time will tell if the way you are raising your baby, in your environment and climate, works. I don't keep my babies in closed chambers either, however, I do keep them covered with plastic, just to keep the cool air from my house out of the habitat. With my babies, so far so good. Nice and smooth.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Welcome!

 

[Stormy]

Hello and welcome.

Where are you? Different points of view are welcome, but please don't close your mind to decades of experience from people who have already done what you are doing now and already know what the result will be.

Unless you are in the Sahel region of Africa, I don't see how leaving your baby outside all the time simulates nature. What happens for this species in nature is warm temps day and night and a 3-4 month rainy season with soupy humidity. That is the environment that babies hatch into. The fact is that no one has studied baby sulcatas in the wild, and most of what we know is speculation based on what we see in captivity. How can we "simulate nature" when no one really knows what happens in nature for these babies? Decades of trial and error, failure and success, have taught me what works best for this species. I've experimented with keeping and raising these babies every which way you can imagine, and also observed what happens with other people's methods around the country and around the world. Many of my experiments are documented here on this forum.

Let me demonstrate my point another way: I have a friend named Tomas Diagne. He lives in Senegal Africa and he founded the African Cheloninan Institute. You can look him up on an internet search. Sulcatas are extinct in the wild in several African countries and were nearly extinct in Senegal too. Estimates in Senegal were down to 40 animals left in the wild. Tomas began captive breeding locally acquired sulcatas and raising their babies for repatriation into the wild. There were a lot of legal, political and veterinary hoops to jump through, but he did it! Mind you, he is in the natural range for this species. In his first attempts at raising babies outside all day, as you are doing, he ran into major issues and had to make quite a few "adjustments" to his captive housing strategies to get the new babies to survive and thrive.

To further drive home the point, we have the same issue right here at home with people attempting to raise CA desert tortoises the "natural" way outdoors in their back yards. They are given this info by breeders and "experts". The vast majority of captive hatched DT babies die as a result of this ignorance of what these babies really need. Same with sulcata babies. The care info dispensed for this species for the last 30 years has been based on incorrect assumptions of how they live in the wild, and it is wrong.

About this time, you are probably thinking that you should never have joined this forum, and you should have never said anything about what you are doing. I sincerely hope you don't take this that way. I hope you can take this info for what it really is: Knowledgeable, experienced people trying to prevent you from making mistakes that they themselves have made in the past. We don't want to argue or hurt anyone's feelings, but we also don't want to see any baby tortoises come to harm. Having them outside all day and night harms them. Even in tropical areas of the world, I answer a constant stream of personal messages asking for help after their babies are sick and dying from trying to do what you are doing. Outdoors full time is great for adults in the right climate with the right set up. Outside full time for babies is not so great.

I hope you are open to discussing it. Please ask questions. Take me to task and make me explain how I know what I know. Give me the chance to help you understand what I already know. I learned these things the hard way. You don't have to.

I live on the gulf coast of Texas. Our average temperature is low 75 and highs of 90 from March to October. Average humidity is 90% evening through mid day dropping a bit in the late afternoon to around 60% humidity. So semi tropical and high humidity all the time. My enclosure is half shaded all day and fully shaded late afternoon with lots of grass and weeds growing. I have been soaking the little one morning and evening and I have water available all the time. Of course I have an indoor setup with heat and light ready for when the time comes, but it doesn't turn cool for several more months. The breeder I purchased from raised his tortoises outdoors and suggested I do the same. I have a friend close by with a very pretty sulcata that raised hers outside from a hatchling and it has a lovely smooth shell. The reason I chose a sulcata over other species is that they seem to do very well in our climate. I do want to learn as much as I can and give him the best life I can. I just don't think anything I can buy and set up inside my home would be more benificialy that the loving arms of Mother Nature.

 

[Tom]

I do want to learn as much as I can and give him the best life I can. I just don't think anything I can buy and set up inside my home would be more benificialy that the loving arms of Mother Nature.

I love your romantic optimism, but repeated first hand experience has taught me otherwise.

While you've chosen to focus on Mother Nature's loving arms, don't forget that Mother Nature can also be a cruel mistress.

I've done what I can do to help. You'll learn in time. I wish you good luck.

 

[Pearly]

Hello Stormy, welcome from Austin area! I wanted a sulcata too but ended up going with the Redfooted due to practical reasons related to their size. Great to have you here!!!!

 

[Pearly]

Would love to see some pictures of your little sully

 

[Pearly]

Would love to see some pictures of your little sully

Meant MORE pictures. We like to show off our pers and enclosures which often inspire ideas and learning

 

[Stormy]

Meant MORE pictures. We like to show off our pers and enclosures which often inspire ideas and learning