Healthy diet? Portion sizing?

[Avuwyy]

Hey, I realised I post a lot but I just want to make sure I’m doing something right ^^;

I need to know whether or not my tortoises diet is reasonable, and whether I am giving him too much or too little.

His diet consists of: Lambs lettuce, frisée, radicchio, beetroot, spinach, kale, carrot, cucumber, romaine, and occasionally I’ll try him with dandelion pellets (For additional fibre). On the odd occasion he will have a bite or two of a raspberry or a strawberry (Not a fruit eating species of course but a little ain’t harmed no one).
Im currently growing a mixture of weeds, but I’m waiting for them to cultivate. I’m unsure as to whether going out to gather grasses and weeds from my local forest walk would be a good idea due to possible bad stuff that may come with it (Especially since my tortoise is so young), should I shrug this off and feed him these? I know they’re a lot more natural for him.

I feed him three times a day by hand as he will not approach his bowl (As soon as he gets into his enclosure he goes into his hide, always at 80-100% humidity), I never see him outside apart from his legs hanging out of his hide to get heat from the heat lamp (I personally believe this is due to his enclosure not being enriching enough which will soon change). Each time he is hand fed, I attempt to feed him three different variations of food, each one the size of his head.
For example, if I were feeding him lambs lettuce, I would feed him only one leaf. It’s a difficult way of measuring, but he for some reason has been losing weight, I’m not sure if that’s because he’s dehydrated (Which he shouldn’t be as i soak him twice a day morning and night, and I have a water dish full at all times).

Any insight would be lovely.
Thank you!

(Ps. Tortoise fits into the palm of my hand, and is about 6cm length. Currently weighing 35g.)

 

[wellington]

Do not feed fruit at all yes is can't harm specially alittle one. No cucumber unless you think he needs hydration. Also no carrot or spinach. He is not getting enough to eat. Should be a handful at least as big as him. When it's all gone you give another handful. Little ones should have food available all day.
What are your temps? He's not coming out for a reason and it's not the reason you think. How big is the enclosure?
What are you feeding him on when you do put food down for him? Should be a flat piece of tile or rock or a very low sided dish.
Give all temps, size of enclosure and a pic of enclosure see we can figure out what's wrong.

 

[wellington]

And stop feeding the foods I said not too feed.

 

[Tom]

I feed him three times a day by hand as he will not approach his bowl (As soon as he gets into his enclosure he goes into his hide,

Can you clarify the above quote? Where is he when he's not in his enclosure?

What are your four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking area, and overnight low?

What equipment are you using to maintain these temps? UV? What type?

What size enclosure? Covered top?

Its not normal for them to not eat out of their bowl. Something is off some where, and the weight loss is a bad sign.

This guy has had a bad start. Much too dry. Its going to take some effort and some ideal conditions to get him to survive and thrive.

Have you read these things:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Avuwyy]

Can you clarify the above quote? Where is he when he's not in his enclosure?

What are your four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking area, and overnight low?

What equipment are you using to maintain these temps? UV? What type?

What size enclosure? Covered top?

Its not normal for them to not eat out of their bowl. Something is off some where, and the weight loss is a bad sign.

This guy has had a bad start. Much too dry. Its going to take some effort and some ideal conditions to get him to survive and thrive.

Have you read these things:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

I lay a blanket over my bed and bathe and feed him there, it’s higher up so I think it gives him some sort of a vantage point and helps him feel at ease (he’s a lot less skittish on the bed). He is always monitored though and if he gets anywhere near the side I make sure he doesn’t go too close. This is only when I’m feeding or bathing him as he won’t go anywhere near food in his enclosure.

Warm side: 30°c
Cool side: 24°c
Basking area: 36°c
Overnight low: 22/24°c

Im currently using a 100w red heat bulb as I was advised by the store owner, I now know this is wrong and have ordered a black bulb over a week ago without the delivery
Uv radiates some heat also but not much. UV strip 5% (Again trying to replace this), along the inside wall of the enclosure.

30 x 17 x 6 inches, no covered top, but I sometimes do drape a blanket over the front to maintain heat (Not touching heat lamp of course).

Yes, I’m not sure if I mentioned but he was kept 0 humidity in the store for months, and was only getting soaked 2 times a week without access to a water dish. His weight has increased since I got him but at one point it had dropped to 20s so I was worried I was doing something wrong despite feeding him so much.

I’ve read all of those topics.

 

[Avuwyy]

Do not feed fruit at all yes is can't harm specially alittle one. No cucumber unless you think he needs hydration. Also no carrot or spinach. He is not getting enough to eat. Should be a handful at least as big as him. When it's all gone you give another handful. Little ones should have food available all day.
What are your temps? He's not coming out for a reason and it's not the reason you think. How big is the enclosure?
What are you feeding him on when you do put food down for him? Should be a flat piece of tile or rock or a very low sided dish.
Give all temps, size of enclosure and a pic of enclosure see we can figure out what's wrong.

As I said, no matter I leave the food in his bowl he will not go near it so I can only feed as much as I have time for (and believe me I sit there for 3 hours sometimes having to feed him by hand, he won’t even take food from the ground even when on the blanket). I do this three times a day.
Same thing with water, he won’t drink from his water dish, unless I spray him he won’t even drink from his soak (Yes I watch him that close ^^

It’s a dish which gets buried into the substrate to ensure you can walk into it, same as his water dish. He has investigated once or twice but he wants nothing to do with it.

I’ve stated temps and enclosure statistics in above comment (Im a lazy typer sorry ;.

He only gets cucumber when I hadn’t seen him drinking from his soak. And I only feed him carrot and raspberry when he is being incredibly fussy with foods and needs fibre, or a push to eat. Shouldn’t I do this anymore?

 

[wellington]

I would not use a black light either. You want ceramic heat emitters for night heat and can use them or a regular incandescent bulb for added day heat.
A strip/tube flourescent uvb bulb is what you want for uvb. Why are you replacing yours?
I would not feed any more fruit. It's not bad for them.
The enclosure needs to be covered so heat and humidity will stay accurate and not fluctuate so much. A blanket won't really do it and the whole enclosure should have a top.
What are you using to read temps and where is it located within the enclosure? Something is likely off with the temp for him to hide away all the time.

 

[TechnoCheese]

I lay a blanket over my bed and bathe and feed him there, it’s higher up so I think it gives him some sort of a vantage point and helps him feel at ease (he’s a lot less skittish on the bed). He is always monitored though and if he gets anywhere near the side I make sure he doesn’t go too close. This is only when I’m feeding or bathing him as he won’t go anywhere near food in his enclosure.

Warm side: 30°c
Cool side: 24°c
Basking area: 36°c
Overnight low: 22/24°c

Im currently using a 100w red heat bulb as I was advised by the store owner, I now know this is wrong and have ordered a black bulb over a week ago without the delivery
Uv radiates some heat also but not much. UV strip 5% (Again trying to replace this), along the inside wall of the enclosure.

30 x 17 x 6 inches, no covered top, but I sometimes do drape a blanket over the front to maintain heat (Not touching heat lamp of course).

Yes, I’m not sure if I mentioned but he was kept 0 humidity in the store for months, and was only getting soaked 2 times a week without access to a water dish. His weight has increased since I got him but at one point it had dropped to 20s so I was worried I was doing something wrong despite feeding him so much.

I’ve read all of those topics.

Cool side and overnight lows are too low. You want it to be 27 minimum in the coolest part of the enclosure.

 

[Tom]

I lay a blanket over my bed and bathe and feed him there, it’s higher up so I think it gives him some sort of a vantage point and helps him feel at ease (he’s a lot less skittish on the bed). He is always monitored though and if he gets anywhere near the side I make sure he doesn’t go too close. This is only when I’m feeding or bathing him as he won’t go anywhere near food in his enclosure.

Warm side: 30°c
Cool side: 24°c
Basking area: 36°c
Overnight low: 22/24°c

Im currently using a 100w red heat bulb as I was advised by the store owner, I now know this is wrong and have ordered a black bulb over a week ago without the delivery
Uv radiates some heat also but not much. UV strip 5% (Again trying to replace this), along the inside wall of the enclosure.

30 x 17 x 6 inches, no covered top, but I sometimes do drape a blanket over the front to maintain heat (Not touching heat lamp of course).

Yes, I’m not sure if I mentioned but he was kept 0 humidity in the store for months, and was only getting soaked 2 times a week without access to a water dish. His weight has increased since I got him but at one point it had dropped to 20s so I was worried I was doing something wrong despite feeding him so much.

I’ve read all of those topics.

The threads I linked in post #4 will explain all of this, but I'll point out several mistakes. I don't do this to be mean or hurt your feelings, but so you know what to fix. You've gotten the typical bad pet store advice, and you've improved things using the info you've learned here, but there is more to learn.

1. No colored bulbs. Not red or black. It needs to be dark at night, but still warm. A ceramic heating element or radiant heat panel will work much better and it needs to be set on a thermostat ro keep the over night low in the coldest part of the enclosure at around 26-27C.
2. I don't see any mention of a basking bulb. Do you have one other than the red bulb? If not, this might be why he won't go near the food while in the enclosure and wants to hide all the time.
3. The enclosure is a bit too small, and those low sides will not hold in any heat or humidity.
4. You need a covered top, or better yet a closed chamber, AKA vivarium, to maintain the correct warm temps and higher humidity. This will also be MUCH easier to keep warm and stable.
5. Best to fix the enclosure problems and then leave him in his warm safe enclosure. Out on the bed at room temp is too cold for such a tiny baby, even for a short time.
6. 5.0 tubes produce almost no UV. Even the regular 10.0 tubes on produce a very small amount of UV from 10 inches away. Look into either Arcadia or ZooMed HO tubes for a more effective UV source, which is necessary in a climate like yours.
7. Blankets allow for some air flow. Look into something like aluminum foil or perspex to cover your top.
8. Due to his dry start, its even more important that you simulate warm humid monsoon conditions fo this baby. His lack of growth is cause for concern, so it makes all the things even more important.

 

[Avuwyy]

I would not use a black light either. You want ceramic heat emitters for night heat and can use them or a regular incandescent bulb for added day heat.
A strip/tube flourescent uvb bulb is what you want for uvb. Why are you replacing yours?
I would not feed any more fruit. It's not bad for them.
The enclosure needs to be covered so heat and humidity will stay accurate and not fluctuate so much. A blanket won't really do it and the whole enclosure should have a top.
What are you using to read temps and where is it located within the enclosure? Something is likely off with the temp for him to hide away all the time.

Thats What i meant, I meant heat emitters without the light I forgot the name lol.

Replacing mine because it’s too low a percentage uv for a tortoise which is a desert grassland species. I was going to buy a 10% uv tube instead.

I can’t find any sort of top to stop the heat from escaping, I’ve looked everywhere so the only way for me to capture heat and humidity is unfortunately to drape something like a blanket or towel over the enclosure.

I have two set thermometers, one in the hot end one in the cool end, and a digital thermometer which I use to read specific temperatures in certain areas (such as his hide). His hide is always mid 30s.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

I don’t spell very good ,but I have pics ![emoji106][emoji217]

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

This is for heat no light

 

[wellington]

View attachment 264422I don’t spell very good ,but I have pics ![emoji106][emoji217]

I wouldn't suggest these any more. They still cause pyramiding even in closed chamber high humidity. At least with leopards. I have proof sadly.