Hawks?

[Taylor T.]

So after my Russian's previous enclosure becoming filled with creosote (https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/creosote.165800/#post-1603802) I made a new one. Here's a photo of it partially built.


My question is whether I need to worry about hawks getting him in this relatively open enclosure. His old one was right up against our house so I didn't think it would be too much of an issue. With this one though, I'm thinking that hawks might be a problem.

Thoughts?

 

[wellington]

Yes, Hawks can be a problem. I would either plant lots of bushes and plants or put a fence top over it.

 

[Yvonne G]

There are a lot of hawks here, but I've never seen one show an interest in any of my russians or box turtles.

Are you planning to put another layer on that wall? I don't think one block is tall enough.

 

[Tom]

I agree with Yvonne on both counts.

We have a pair of red tails here and even when they are desperate to find enough food to feed their ravenous springtime babies, they don't even look at a 5" tortoise. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't worry about hawks for an adult russian. I'd worry more about dogs. Yours, a neighbors, or a visiting family members dog.

Definitely add a second or third row.

And I would dig down and make an underground hideout too.

I think it is a nice size and I like the round design.

 

[wellington]

I agree with Yvonne on both counts.

We have a pair of red tails here and even when they are desperate to find enough food to feed their ravenous springtime babies, they don't even look at a 5" tortoise. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't worry about hawks for an adult russian. I'd worry more about dogs. Yours, a neighbors, or a visiting family members dog.

Definitely add a second or third row.

And I would dig down and make an underground hideout too.

I think it is a nice size and I like the round design.

Really? Do you think it's the size of the tort or because in your and Yvonne's areas you might have more preferred food over a tortoise? I have crows that has looked at my torts in a way that was kinda scary. They never have done anything but I sure wouldn't want it to be a Hawk.

 

[Taylor T.]

There are a lot of hawks here, but I've never seen one show an interest in any of my russians or box turtles.

Are you planning to put another layer on that wall? I don't think one block is tall enough.

On his last enclosure I used one layer high. Plus I added a layer of red bricks on top of the cinder blocks with an overhang of about an inch. It kept him in his old enclosure for the two years that I had him it it.

Here's a picture of it now:


His SCL is only about 5.5 inches, so he's only about half the height of the walls even when he's standing up on his back legs, and that's without counting the overhang of the bricks.

 

[Taylor T.]

I agree with Yvonne on both counts.

We have a pair of red tails here and even when they are desperate to find enough food to feed their ravenous springtime babies, they don't even look at a 5" tortoise. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't worry about hawks for an adult russian. I'd worry more about dogs. Yours, a neighbors, or a visiting family members dog.

Definitely add a second or third row.

And I would dig down and make an underground hideout too.

I think it is a nice size and I like the round design.

Yes, I am very paranoid about dogs. Fortunately, I don't think anyone has a dog within quite a distance.

 

[Tom]

Really? Do you think it's the size of the tort or because in your and Yvonne's areas you might have more preferred food over a tortoise? I have crows that has looked at my torts in a way that was kinda scary. They never have done anything but I sure wouldn't want it to be a Hawk.

This could definitely vary by area, but desert hawks tend to be much less selective and go for anything and everything that moves.

Crows, and especially ravens are much smarter than hawks and will figure out ingenious ways to make a meal of anything. But even the big desert ravens here won't mess with larger tortoises. Babies? Yes. Raven food. Adult russians or larger? If it has ever happened, I've never seen or heard of it. Sometimes I set food out to defrost in the sun for my hawk or a reptile. If you turn your back for one second it will be gone. And that is with 6+ people, 30 dogs and lots of other animals milling around the area all day and night. But those same thieving birds have never once made an attempt at a baby tortoise here. For safety and peace of mind, I lay a sheet of heavy 1x2" welded wire over any sunning enclosure with small tortoises in it, and I would expect to see the raven swoop down on the the wire and try to figure out how to get a snack, but they don't.

When I had Minerva at hunting weight and was flying her around the ranch for exercise and training, she once landed next to one of the male SA leopards that was out walking around. She eyeballed it and cocked her head to look into the moving rock, but didn't try to do anything to it. No tortoises for Minerva:

 

[Taylor T.]

Here's a little update now that it has had a chance to grow in:



It seems that this is a much better place for an enclosure than his old one because it gets sun all day. The old one didn't get sun until about 1:00 PM, severely limiting the amount of time he could spend outside.

The main hide I made for him is the large structure directly it front of the camera in this photo. It is a wood hide box that is completely covered in dirt, with a piece of plywood resting on cobblestones about 0.5" above the dirt so that heat from the sun will not be conducted into the hide. The temperature in the hide hardly changes thought the normal day-night temperatures.

The smaller structure in front and to the left of the main hide is just to provide a nice shady spot that he can cool off in. It is just a piece of plywood resting of cobblestones with rocks on top for thermal storage capacity.

One thing I've found very difficult with this new enclosure is keeping away weeds that he shouldn't be eating. Here in New England, any bare soil becomes covered completely in weeds it a matter of a few weeks. This is great for the weeds that I want,(that big green area in the left edge of the enclosure is completely plantain) but it makes it extremely difficult to keep it free of the bad plants.

The only plants that I have actually planted are:

Hibiscus
Butterfly bush
A few Plantains.

All the rest just came up on its own.

I think Taylor approves:

 

[CarolM]

Here's a little update now that it has had a chance to grow in:

View attachment 240191

It seems that this is a much better place for an enclosure than his old one because it gets sun all day. The old one didn't get sun until about 1:00 PM, severely limiting the amount of time he could spend outside.

The main hide I made for him is the large structure directly it front of the camera in this photo. It is a wood hide box that is completely covered in dirt, with a piece of plywood resting on cobblestones about 0.5" above the dirt so that heat from the sun will not be conducted into the hide. The temperature in the hide hardly changes thought the normal day-night temperatures.

The smaller structure in front and to the left of the main hide is just to provide a nice shady spot that he can cool off in. It is just a piece of plywood resting of cobblestones with rocks on top for thermal storage capacity.

One thing I've found very difficult with this new enclosure is keeping away weeds that he shouldn't be eating. Here in New England, any bare soil becomes covered completely in weeds it a matter of a few weeks. This is great for the weeds that I want,(that big green area in the left edge of the enclosure is completely plantain) but it makes it extremely difficult to keep it free of the bad plants.

The only plants that I have actually planted are:

Hibiscus
Butterfly bush
A few Plantains.

All the rest just came up on its own.

I think Taylor approves:
View attachment 240200

It is a nice outside enclosure. I like it.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Here's a little update now that it has had a chance to grow in:

View attachment 240191

It seems that this is a much better place for an enclosure than his old one because it gets sun all day. The old one didn't get sun until about 1:00 PM, severely limiting the amount of time he could spend outside.

The main hide I made for him is the large structure directly it front of the camera in this photo. It is a wood hide box that is completely covered in dirt, with a piece of plywood resting on cobblestones about 0.5" above the dirt so that heat from the sun will not be conducted into the hide. The temperature in the hide hardly changes thought the normal day-night temperatures.

The smaller structure in front and to the left of the main hide is just to provide a nice shady spot that he can cool off in. It is just a piece of plywood resting of cobblestones with rocks on top for thermal storage capacity.

One thing I've found very difficult with this new enclosure is keeping away weeds that he shouldn't be eating. Here in New England, any bare soil becomes covered completely in weeds it a matter of a few weeks. This is great for the weeds that I want,(that big green area in the left edge of the enclosure is completely plantain) but it makes it extremely difficult to keep it free of the bad plants.

The only plants that I have actually planted are:

Hibiscus
Butterfly bush
A few Plantains.

All the rest just came up on its own.

I think Taylor approves:
View attachment 240200

He looks happy! I was just looking at your circle rock design there and thinking to myself, maybe all the old ancient ruins we've found like Stonehenge were really just Tortoise pens?

 

[CarolM]

He looks happy! I was just looking at your circle rock design their and thinking to myself, maybe all the old ancient ruins we've found like Stonehenge were really just Tortoise pens?

Whahaha. That is funny.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Here's a little update now that it has had a chance to grow in:

View attachment 240191

It seems that this is a much better place for an enclosure than his old one because it gets sun all day. The old one didn't get sun until about 1:00 PM, severely limiting the amount of time he could spend outside.

The main hide I made for him is the large structure directly it front of the camera in this photo. It is a wood hide box that is completely covered in dirt, with a piece of plywood resting on cobblestones about 0.5" above the dirt so that heat from the sun will not be conducted into the hide. The temperature in the hide hardly changes thought the normal day-night temperatures.

The smaller structure in front and to the left of the main hide is just to provide a nice shady spot that he can cool off in. It is just a piece of plywood resting of cobblestones with rocks on top for thermal storage capacity.

One thing I've found very difficult with this new enclosure is keeping away weeds that he shouldn't be eating. Here in New England, any bare soil becomes covered completely in weeds it a matter of a few weeks. This is great for the weeds that I want,(that big green area in the left edge of the enclosure is completely plantain) but it makes it extremely difficult to keep it free of the bad plants.

The only plants that I have actually planted are:

Hibiscus
Butterfly bush
A few Plantains.

All the rest just came up on its own.

I think Taylor approves:
View attachment 240200

Hey, I’m just curious what “weeds” are coming up in your new enclosure that your tort “shouldnt be eating?” I would think you have mostly grasses, plantains, dandelions, some misc clovers, and other bits. Nice job on your enclosure area...nice to have areas for walkies and grazing and roaming. Are there some mud holes for soaking too?

Keep up the pix!

 

[Taylor T.]

Hey, I’m just curious what “weeds” are coming up in your new enclosure that your tort “shouldnt be eating?” I would think you have mostly grasses, plantains, dandelions, some misc clovers, and other bits. Nice job on your enclosure area...nice to have areas for walkies and grazing and roaming. Are there some mud holes for soaking too?

Keep up the pix!

Things like Lambs quarters, Wood sorrel, Wild carrot, and anything else I can't identify. I did put some shallow holes inside the enclosure, hoping that when it rains it will become mud, but it seems that whenever I add water myself, it's gone within an hour.