Grain Free pellet?

[Katie Giese]

Is there such a thing as a grain-free pellet supplement out on the market? I plan on feeding my tortoise mainly fresh plants. But all I see in the pellets in stores/online are soybeans, and wheat... I'm I looking for something that doesn't exist?

 

[Loohan]

Yeah, i don't eat grains or soy myself anymore, let alone anything GMO. So i would never feed this stuff to my pets.
I severely damaged my health with soy and wheat, which took years to overcome.

These animal food companies know how to jazz things up with artificial flavors and scents so that animals "like" it.
A friend of mine feeds cats and says it is amazing how wild they are about cheap, crappy dry food.

Experienced tort keepers say mazuri makes them grow like mad and seem healthy. But i don't trust the long-term effects. It's bound to have Roundup residues, for one thing.

 

[BrianWI]

I think ZooMed Natural Grassland Tortoise Food is the closest you will get.

http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?SearchID=3&DatabaseID=2&EntryID=228

 

[TammyJ]

This is interesting. My Jamaican slider turtle likes dry cat food ("Top Cat" fish pellets with no Red No. 40 dye) and I thought of trying my redfoots (babies) with it, so I wet down a few of the pellets to soften them a bit, put them on the feeding tile and WHAM. Of course, if it's not good I won't continue. And they have a mass of greens and weeds as the main part of their meal each day.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

http://standleeforage.com/
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/fsi-cube-and-pellet-premium-alfalfa-bermuda-cube-50-lb

as just two examples

 

[TammyJ]

There is no tortoise formula/dry food, mazuri or whatever, available here in Jamaica. Tortoises are not available in the pet shops. Mine were a straight swap with a zookeeper friend, in which I gave him a young Ball Python for the 2 baby redfoots.
I just wanted to get some opinions on feeding them that particular cat food sometimes. They love it.

 

[cmacusa3]

http://standleeforage.com/
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/fsi-cube-and-pellet-premium-alfalfa-bermuda-cube-50-lb

as just two examples

Will, do you feed your torts one of these Standlee products?

 

[Katie Giese]

Will, Thank you for the links. Very helpful. As I assumed I would need to search outside of the "tort" world for pellets.

For my Russian, would you advise a timothy/bermuda hay pellet or just straight up timothy hay? I saw someone posted that they soak their pellets? Or mix the greens and veggies with the timothy hay?

I am adopting this guy today, and he expressed no interest in pet store pellets, which is fine with me! and as Brian stated, the Grassland Zoomed was the "healthiest" ingredient-wise but still listed soy bean hulls as #3. Not good enough for me.

Thanks again for all of your feedback and help

 

[BrianWI]

Will, Thank you for the links. Very helpful. As I assumed I would need to search outside of the "tort" world for pellets.

For my Russian, would you advise a timothy/bermuda hay pellet or just straight up timothy hay? I saw someone posted that they soak their pellets? Or mix the greens and veggies with the timothy hay?

I am adopting this guy today, and he expressed no interest in pet store pellets, which is fine with me! and as Brian stated, the Grassland Zoomed was the "healthiest" ingredient-wise but still listed soy bean hulls as #3. Not good enough for me.

Thanks again for all of your feedback and help

Why would you be against soy bean hulls? They are a great digestible high fiber feed, exactly what a tortoise needs.

 

[Katie Giese]

I agree that high fiber is essential. Soybeans are the most genetically modified crop in the world. I didnt think Tortoises would naturally find a soybean field and dig up the beans to eat the hulls. Eating broad leafed plants, and vegetation with little to no grains and legumes. All sources of fiber arent created equal. I just would prefer to skip the soybeans and grains.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Will, Thank you for the links. Very helpful. As I assumed I would need to search outside of the "tort" world for pellets.

For my Russian, would you advise a timothy/bermuda hay pellet or just straight up timothy hay? I saw someone posted that they soak their pellets? Or mix the greens and veggies with the timothy hay?

I am adopting this guy today, and he expressed no interest in pet store pellets, which is fine with me! and as Brian stated, the Grassland Zoomed was the "healthiest" ingredient-wise but still listed soy bean hulls as #3. Not good enough for me.

Thanks again for all of your feedback and help

I tend towards the mixed grass pellets. There are some called 'replacer' type that have a range of added nutrients like the ZooMed grassland. I'll try to remember to post an image of the pellet analysis tonight. But it might be a margarita night with my wife, so who knows?

I wet the pellets with many things so the consistency of mix is intentionally inconsistent. I strongly seek to keep a proportion the same, but the flavors and the ingredients different so the tortoises do not become fixated on one diet item or a specific range of diet items. I have used whole pure aloe juice, coconut water, and plain tap water, always critically scanning the labels to buy what is more or less as found in nature, no added this or that. As one example Trader Joe's sell a gallon jug of Pure aloe for about $8.00 and that works well to hydrate the pellets and make them sticky so they adhere to the leaves of chopped escarole and romaine. Sometime I use plain water, but then mash in a small bit of over ripe banana so again it is sticky. Over the past year I have gone more to opuntia pads. Chopped Okra also works well to make the wetted pellets stick.

The opuntia has many great characteristics as a food item. The upper limit is very high and is based on the tortoises having a choice of food items and still eating much opuntia.

I recently got a hand operated food shredder and run the opuntia through it for all types of shapes. The smaller size bits produce a huge amount of sticky gluey liquid that will indeed wet the pellets and make them stick to the chopped greens. I have been more consistent in mixing the pellets and liquid the night before so by morning the pellets are well wetted. Kept in the frig I am not concerned with spoilage for just overnight. I have a dedicated tortoise food fridge now, and that helps.

Here is a link to a thread regarding this kind of idea http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/grocery-store-greens-good.81609/

I was recently directed to a restaurant supply produce store and can buy a case of romaine for $10 to $16, a case of butternut squash for $12, 3 pound bag of spring mix for under $5 etc. Even a case of bananas for as little as $7. I use the bananas as a flavor changer and to make things sticky, so the tortoise are less inclined to pick through. I don't feed that much banana at all in total.

For example if I fed three whole bananas washed, skin and all to the adult Manouria, that would be mixed in with 2-3 pounds of opuntia, the same weight of romaine, escarole, and maybe a chopped up sweet potato and/or cucumber/squash, those bananas once or twoce a week make the diet different and interesting for the tortoises and is 2 to four pounds out of 45-50 pounds of food they eat throughout a week.

I can freeze those bananas as I want them squishy anyways, they chopped or shred more easily when frozen and so that $7 case may last a few months.

Back on point with Russians you can make a small container of wetted pellets kept covered in the fridge for several days. Mixed in with greens and leaves bought or collected you are making sure with the pellets that they are getting long fiber and grasses, and when well mixed they can't really sort any one thing out. For Russians an alfalfa/grass pellet might be a good way to go. Many folks say alfalfa is too high in protein, I don't find that to be the case.

As always water is the most important nutrient. We can't ever let that POV get far from the food stuffs thinking.

Reminder Will, post image of pellets bag labels.

 

[BrianWI]

I agree that high fiber is essential. Soybeans are the most genetically modified crop in the world. I didnt think Tortoises would naturally find a soybean field and dig up the beans to eat the hulls. Eating broad leafed plants, and vegetation with little to no grains and legumes. All sources of fiber aren't created equal. I just would prefer to skip the soybeans and grains.

They aren't eating pellets at all in nature. Nor are they eating the same plants. The comparison is silly. And, you are correct; not all fiber in feeds is created equal. Soybean hulls have been found to be superior to grass hay. Being scared of eating GMO's isn't exactly backed by science, either. You can make these decisions if you want, but let's not pretend there is any science behind it.

 

[Katie Giese]

They aren't eating pellets at all in nature. Nor are they eating the same plants. The comparison is silly. And, you are correct; not all fiber in feeds is created equal. Soybean hulls have been found to be superior to grass hay. Being scared of eating GMO's isn't exactly backed by science, either. You can make these decisions if you want, but let's not pretend there is any science behind it.

Hmmm. Interesting. I'm going to go ahead and avoid GMOs thanks for your opinion. Of course they are eating a wide array of plants! Thanks for pointing out he obvious.. I came here to learn more about taking care of my animal and within 3 posts I have someone calling me silly, and telling me not to pretend there is any evidence in science behind Gmos. Wow.

 

[BrianWI]

Hmmm. Interesting. I'm going to go ahead and avoid GMOs thanks for your opinion. Of course they are eating a wide array of plants! Thanks for pointing out he obvious.. I came here to learn more about taking care of my animal and within 3 posts I have someone calling me silly, and telling me not to pretend there is any evidence in science behind Gmos. Wow.

There is plenty of "evidence in science behind GMOs"; that they are safe. And effective. If you count the big 3 GMO's that are grown at levels higher than 85-90% saturation of the entire crop, corn, beans and cotton, there are massive amounts of them out there. Yet, we haven't all sprouted extra limbs and antennae.

A commercial tortoise diet is much more effective, and better for your tort, than needlessly trying to find grain and gmo-free alternatives. Since we are here to learn to best raise our animals, I find debunking myths an important part of that. It would be sad indeed to find someone feeding an incomplete diet because they had some ill-conceived notion that soybean hulls were "bad" because someone spread an incorrect rumor.

 

[Loohan]

The government-industrial complex would never downplay the toxicity of anything out of impure motives, just as they never exaggerate the dangerousness of harmless substances. They are impeccably objective and scientifically principled. In fact, they are the sole source of credible science. Any conflicting evidence can safely be disposed of.
I mean, why would they lie? And it's not like they have a track record of lying through their teeth, is it?

 

[Tom]

All sarcasm and insults aside, here is the bottom line for me:

Mazuri is a proven tortoises food. Its been in use for 30 years and has produced nothing but good results. I raised tortoises for many years with out it, but once I started using it 5-6 years ago, the benefits were immediate and noticeable. It is a good supplement to an otherwise varied diet. No one is impressed with the ingredients list. Everyone who uses it is impressed with the results.

The ZooMed Grassland pellets are a good way to add fiber and some variety to grocery store produce, for people who need to feed that sort of a diet.

I have personal, first hand experience with both of these two pelleted diets and I recommend both. I don't have any experience with other pellets, so I'll defer to people who do.

A note on Russians: They are not grass eaters. I would not feed grass or rehydrated grass hay pellets to a russian, in general. A small amount soaked and mixed in with greens to add fiber is fine, but not as a dietary staple by itself. Most russians don't eat grass, and when I fed it to mine (I've had many Russians over the years…) the grass blades are excreted relatively intact, in contrast to broadleaf weeds and other greens in the same bowel movement. What I'm saying is that in my experience, Russian tortoises don't digest grass very well.

 

[Loohan]

One thing i am curious about, is whether there is any possibility that genestein acts as a growth hormone in reptiles.
Mazuri contains soy meal as well as hulls, and genestein is the feminizing hormone present in soy. (I know it works because in the '80s when i ate lots of soy, my breasts swelled and sometimes suppurated. And i'm a guy.)

 

[BrianWI]

The government-industrial complex would never downplay the toxicity of anything out of impure motives, just as they never exaggerate the dangerousness of harmless substances. They are impeccably objective and scientifically principled. In fact, they are the sole source of credible science. Any conflicting evidence can safely be disposed of.
I mean, why would they lie? And it's not like they have a track record of lying through their teeth, is it?

Crap, here comes the tinfoil hat crowd!

 

[BrianWI]

One thing i am curious about, is whether there is any possibility that genestein acts as a growth hormone in reptiles.
Mazuri contains soy meal as well as hulls, and genestein is the feminizing hormone present in soy. (I know it works because in the '80s when i ate lots of soy, my breasts swelled and sometimes suppurated. And i'm a guy.)

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

A note on Russians: They are not grass eaters.

For each natural history documentation to this statement I can produce one that says they do eat grass in the wild. It's a throw down Tom.

As a matter of fact, I don't ever recall ANY tortoise that does not eat grass.

Interesting enough wild Russians eat cannabis too, and some call that grass, but I imagine we are talking about the monocotyledons.