Getting discouraged about Tortoise enclosure

[kjr153]

I must admit, I'm starting to get discouraged about my Tort enclosure. First I hear that aquariums are bad then I hear that they are good for babies because they hold heat and humidity. I built a tortoise table thinking I was doing a good thing for the Tort but it seems it always needs something else. I just want my Tort to be happy and healthy. Should I put it back in the aquarium (40gal)? HELP!!

 

[sibi]

It's true if you have a baby, and you want to hold the head and humidity, you can place him in a 40 gal. tank. A tortoise table leaves the top open and any humidity and heat you have can escape easily. You can use the tank until the baby gets a little older. The humidity is particularly important during the first year of his life. This helps with the smoothness of his carapace and helps prevent pyramiding. The most ideal enclosure is called a closed chamber. Tom has posted care sheets and other threads that explain how to care for babies. Look up Tom's user name and find his threads. Some also have it attached to their signatures for ease. Best to you, and don't give up. It's a process we all go through.

 

[MasterOogway]

I think it is easier to keep humidity in a tank. I like that it can be cleaned too since its glass if needed. It can be frustrating all the info.. I would take the information and make it work for you and your tort. As long as you can make the enclosure work for the humidity , temp. Etc. that you need that is what is important.

 

[pspryu101]

i feel the same way right now I keep switching their enclosures and I know it's bad for them to do that but I just want it to be perfect and for them to be happy as well

 

[TortoiseWorld]

Aquariums should only be used in a temporary situation, not enough air flow.
Best to build a large closed table top enclosure, especially if you live in a cooler dryer climate or you will be wasting a lot of energy out the enclosure and into the house.
I am about to build a large (5' x 5') closed enclosure for my 3 black mountain tortoises.
The bigger the better, tortoises need to have the room to walk around to exercise or they will not do so well in time.

I know it's not easy or cheap but this is the hobby we chose.
Here is some pics of enclosures that might inspire all of us. The last pic is of my enclosure I built for my Star hatchlings, it is closed but still has good air flow.

 

[ascott]

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-24736.html

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-24768.html

There are ALWAYS ways to do what you want.... a tank is a perfect alternative for a baby while you are constructing and mastering your tortoise table....especially if you are trying to follow some of Toms humidity threads for a baby

 

[Tom]

Aquariums should only be used in a temporary situation, not enough air flow.

I disagree with this. An open topped aquarium has more air flow than a closed chamber with vents built in. Air flow is bad unless the air in the room is warm and humid. Airflow let's the warm humid air that we strive to create out of the enclosure where we want it and into the room. I have been using glass tanks for chelonians since 1979. I have never encountered a problem from lack of air flow. I am still using them today and work very hard to reduce airflow. I have switched to mostly closed chambers because they are FAR more efficient, FAR easier to maintain good conditions in, and they produce FAR better growth results.

Tortoise tables and low sided plastic sweater boxes are the absolute worse case scenario for housing a baby in a typical North American home. The low sides and wide surface area allow all the warm and or humid air to escape. They make for one hot dry spot directly under the heat bulb. Since its so cool everywhere else, the tortoise will tend to sit under the bulb a lot, which contributes to drying out the carapace, which contributes to more pyramiding.

Closed chambers are the best way to go, but a glass or plastic tank with the top mostly covered will work too.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I must admit, I'm starting to get discouraged about my Tort enclosure. First I hear that aquariums are bad then I hear that they are good for babies because they hold heat and humidity. I built a tortoise table thinking I was doing a good thing for the Tort but it seems it always needs something else. I just want my Tort to be happy and healthy. Should I put it back in the aquarium (40gal)? HELP!!

You haven't mentioned what type of Tort you have...this is needed info to answer your question.

I keep a leopard in a 40 gal tank when inside. I have since it was a few months old. Now it's almost a year old. Works perfect for Kroon the warm, humid conditions i want. I also have an adult Russian and would never house him in a 40gal.

---

"kroon" ? Lol... I meant "keeping"

 

[ascott]

"kroon" ? Lol... I meant "keeping"

Fricken hilarious....LMAO here......baaahaaaa

Don't ya love it when that type of thing happens....

 

[Tom]

kjr, this is just physics. What conditions do you wish to create for your baby? What enclosure will best accomplish that goal in YOUR home?

Personally, I have found the best results by simulating the African rainy season that sulcatas are hatched into. It's hot, humid, wet, and there is food as far as the eye can see. There are puddles from all the rain and the babies are often found in and around marshes.

With the heater running in the winter and the A/C running in the summer, it is VERY dry inside my home. Add a heat bulb to an open topped enclosure and it gets even drier. The chimney effect created by this technique further serves to draw cool, dry air into an enclosure that I wish to keep warm and humid. A closed chamber keeps all the warm humid air where I want it. INSIDE the enclosure where the tortoise is. Having the heat bulbs inside the enclosure means I can use a lot lower wattage bulbs and get plenty of warmth. All of the electricity I burn to heat and light my enclosure stays inside the enclosure instead of floating up and into the room. I use about 70-80% less electricity in a closed chamber than I do a smaller open topped enclosure, and get way better results and conditions from it.

There is a lot of conflicting info and MISinformation floating around out there on the web. It can be difficult to sort through. Look for the results of whatever technique is being proposed. Look around this site at photos and decide what you want your tortoise to look like. Simulating the same conditions will most likely get you the same results. Good luck. Please keep asking all the questions you need to get the info that will help you.

 

[10mm]

I am no pro but I used a 30 gallon tank and removed the back piece of glass. Then I added 3" to each corner creating a 3 sided set up. It works pretty well. I have the lamp slightly angled pointing into the glass area. The temps are consistent and the humidity is pretty easy to keep @ 50% (which is is what my Herrmanns calls for). You get the benefit of the glass and a the room of a table. Just my 2 cents. If heat or humidity became an issue I could cover the top of the glass area as well. Pic attached.

 

[Yvonne G]

Don't get discouraged, Kjr. In my opinion, the aquarium will be a good place for your baby until he gets to be about a year old. At that time, you can probably have him outside for a good portion of the day, then back inside at night. Your tort table would be fine for him then. We all have our opinions on tortoise-keeping. You have to learn what the tortoise needs and try to give him that. How ever you can arrive at that destination, is a good thing!

 

[kjr153]

Guess I forgot to mention, it's a Sulcata. Unknown age. I think I'm just going to put it back in the 40 gallon tank until it gets warm outside and I can construct a little bit better table. I think it is starting to pyramid as well and I need to stop that ASAP. I feel bad for it being on this tortoise table for this long and come to find out it is not an ideal situation. I guess that's what it gets for being my first tortoise You guys are so helpful and I am blessed to have found this site. My tort is lucky I found this site too. Tom said "Personally, I have found the best results by simulating the African rainy season that sulcatas are hatched into. It's hot, humid, wet, and there is food as far as the eye can see. There are puddles from all the rain and the babies are often found in and around marshes." This is why I now know why pet stores are bad. They tell you to keep timothy hay as the substrate and that they don't need to drink, they get all of their water from the iceberg lettuce you feed them. OMGosh!!! I was guilty of the timothy hay but I've never fed iceberg lettuce and the tort has always had access to the water dish. I just want a smooth, healthy and happy tortoise!!!! Again, thank all of you for your kind words and advice. I really appreciate the help.

 

[AZtortMom]

I love this forum too. The information has definitely made a difference for my babies too Don't be discouraged about his enclosure. My babies have had 3 different enclosures before I was happy with it. Even now, with their massive indoor horse watering trough enclosure ( plexiglass lid included) I'm still messing with it.

 

[TortoiseWorld]

I guess it depends how big the aquarium is and how clean you keep it.
My blacks are in a 90 gallon aquarium for quarantine a few more weeks then I am going to move them to their new home.
My dream is to move to the Philippines or Thailand and bring them with to a tropical outdoor enclosure.

 

[Millerlite]

I use a tank for my black mt Toetoises, it's 6feet long by 2 feet wide. It's temporary till I have room to build there outdoor enclosure hopefully this summer.

Kyle

 

[TortoiseWorld]

That would be cool. Your lucky you live in a warm climate. I'm stuck here in Illinois a few more years until my daughter starts college etc.

 

[AZtortMom]

It's still cool here.. My babies still need warmth. I just added another light to their enclosure because the temps dropped below ideal. They have 2 lights and a CHE to maintain the toasty environment they need

 

[FLINTUS]

Just a little fuel for the debate...
I had kept my red foot who was a yearling when I got him for about a year in an open-top enclosure, and guess what... no pyramiding. I do use a viv now as it's a larger enclosure-quite a lot more than a 4 by 2- so temps and humidity are harder to keep accurate. I still think for non-rainforest torts who don't need so much humidity(I classify Sullys as these, minus the first few months where the baby just buries into the substrate in the wild), tables are the way to go. A major problem with aquariums is the fact that they can see-through.

 

[Tom]

Just a little fuel for the debate...
I had kept my red foot who was a yearling when I got him for about a year in an open-top enclosure, and guess what... no pyramiding. I do use a viv now as it's a larger enclosure-quite a lot more than a 4 by 2- so temps and humidity are harder to keep accurate. I still think for non-rainforest torts who don't need so much humidity(I classify Sullys as these, minus the first few months where the baby just buries into the substrate in the wild), tables are the way to go. A major problem with aquariums is the fact that they can see-through.

How many smooth sulcatas have you raised from hatchling?

How do you know what wild baby sulcatas do, when the people who live there and have worked with hundreds of them from hatching to adulthood don't?

Be careful offering advice to people about something you have no experience with or knowledge of. It might do harm. You are correct that sulcatas are not a rain forest species, but you are not correct about their humidity needs in captivity or what they experience in the wild. Hatchlings emerge at the start of the rainy season and have three to four months of hot, humid, rainy, marshy conditions. No one knows what they do or where they go after their first rainy season. It has been my experience with 100s of hatchlings that they do NOT burrow and in fact go out of their way to avoid any sort of hole in the ground until they are at least 4-6" at which point a small percentage of them will start digging shallow palettes. Most of mine will not attempt an actual burrow until they are around 8-10".

Further, me and several other members have been starting hatchlings in see through glass aquariums for decades with out any issues. I have hatchlings in a glass enclosure right now, and it's not an issue. They have been in there since September and dozens of other ones were raised in that enclosure prior to these.