Gets her head stuck

[reptylefreek]

So I have had Bumber for about 7 months now(she is an adult Leo though) and she does some pretty strange things. She has a horrible problem eating because of her beak. I hear her clicking it all the time. I have started trimming it little by little but she gets her mouth stuck open and cant close it. I have to go over to her and pry her mouth open or push on her jaw so her beak lines up. Then sometimes she sucks her head in at a slight angle and gets it stuck, she just starts backing up and I've had to go and help her get her head back out. Also when I found out that she loves cactus i started buying it frequently, most of the time I would hand feed her, but it takes awhile, so I would cut it up into bite size pieces and put it in her food. Then she started choking on it, no matter how big or small the pieces were she still had problems. I tried giving it to her whole but she cant ever get a bite out of it. Sometimes I think she's a little "slow" if you know what I mean. These problems worry me and I was wondering if anyone else has problems with their adults being kinda odd? Also, I'm pretty sure she has MBD and she only weighs about 10 lbs and about 14in, but she has got to be around 20 years old. I haven't seen any growth or weight gain since I got her and in the 7 years the previous owner had her I would say she only grew a few inches. Is there a possibility she has stopped growing? At what age would a healthy Leopard stop growing? She lives indoor right now since I'm in Washington and its still a little cold, and I want to make sure I'm feeding her enough. I feed her twice a day and give her as much as she wants until she walks away from it. Im worried about putting her in a permenent out door enclosure because when I take her outside for a full day, she doesn't graze, ever. Anyway... I feel like there is something odd about her, any comments would be great

 

[dmmj]

My first question would be what is her diet like?

 

[reptylefreek]

She is VERY picky and eats mostly spring mix. I add red and green leaf lettuce, collards, dandelion leaf, cactus pads, sometimes some romaine. But if she's having an off day she will only touch the leaves from the spring mix. Her diet before I got her had a lot of fruit in it and her poop was runny and smelled bad so I cut all fruit out until it looked better. She occasionally get a peice of apple or a little banana or i try to give her berries. She wont touch any grass or soft hay. I even tried to not give her any choice but grass and hay but she would go without eating for days. She's kinda dramatic that way

 

[Seiryu]

She is VERY picky and eats mostly spring mix. I add red and green leaf lettuce, collards, dandelion leaf, cactus pads, sometimes some romaine. But if she's having an off day she will only touch the leaves from the spring mix. Her diet before I got her had a lot of fruit in it and her poop was runny and smelled bad so I cut all fruit out until it looked better. She occasionally get a peice of apple or a little banana or i try to give her berries. She wont touch any grass or soft hay. I even tried to not give her any choice but grass and hay but she would go without eating for days. She's kinda dramatic that way

If she's a Babcocki, which I assume she is, 14" could be what she stops growing at. They seem to be around 14-18" However the weight definitely seems low to me.

For the grass, have you tried picking a lot of grass, and cutting (or tearing) it into like 1/2" pieces and sprinkling it on her favorite foods?

This works for me and my 1 year old leopard and i've said it before. But if you can get Frissee (a lot in your case with a big leo), and then mix the grass up in 1/2-3/4" pieces into the frissee, it hides the grass really well. Mine goes through it and doesn't even care there's grass because he loves frissee so much!

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Well, for starters, stop giving her that "Full Throttle" to drink!

Poor critter, sounds like you are doing the best you can to take care of her and keep her healthy.

Yvonne or Maggie or Kelly might know whether a vet could do anything to "fix" the misaligned beak so she can eat safely.

 

[TortieLuver]

It sounds like you really care about her.

 

[reptylefreek]

I have tried sneaking grass in her food and if she tastes it she stops eating and goes to bask. SEIRYU: I have had difficulty finding good info on the difference between Babcocki and Pardalis. Do you know where I can get some good info one this? I just bought a baby and seeing as she only cost about 150 I know she is probably a babcocki(?), but i want some in depth info.

 

[Seiryu]

I have tried sneaking grass in her food and if she tastes it she stops eating and goes to bask. SEIRYU: I have had difficulty finding good info on the difference between Babcocki and Pardalis. Do you know where I can get some good info one this? I just bought a baby and seeing as she only cost about 150 I know she is probably a babcocki(?), but i want some in depth info.

I can't personally tell the difference in adults. With hatchlings though, Pardalis pardalis have two dots in each of the scutes in the middle of the carapace, whereas Babcocki have 1 or none.

Pardalis pardalis:
http://www.reptiles1.com/images/gpp_baby_closeups/twinspots.jpg

And Babcocki:
http://www.tortoisesupply.com/products/Baby-Leopard-Tortoise.html

As far as care goes though, it's the same. If you got a baby for $150 I would be really surprised if it was a Pardalis pardalis though.

Well, not sure if this would work then either, but maybe try tearing/cutting the grasses into such small pieces (like a seasoning) and sprinkle some on her food. I doubt she'd taste it, but worth a shot.

 

[K9KidsLove]

Hi...I think you really need to take her to a tortoise vet. Sounds like she needs some grinding done. I had a Map Turtle that had the same problems that you are describing. The vet had to gind down his jaw a little at a time. He didn't feel anything cause he was put to sleep before being worked on. It may be because of the MBD. The vet may suggest you start him on some liquid calcium.
Good luck
Patsy

 

[reptylefreek]

Thanks for the info... I've started trimming and drimmeling her beak and she is having a better time eating. With the weather getting better I hope to have her outside more and maybe I'll throw some spring mix in the grass and teach her to graze...lol. I did that with my sulcata, sprinkle food through out his enclosure to get him to search for food,hahaha, maybe this will work for the Leo

 

[egyptiandan]

With your Leopard having MBD while growing there is only one thing that can be done to help her with her head getting stuck in her shell. That would unfortunately have to be removing some of her shell. The most cosmetic thing would be to remove her gular scutes on her plastron. That would give her a larger opening to get her head in and out.

Danny

 

[reptylefreek]

Thats crazy... i didn't even know you could do that.

 

[Yvonne G]

Thats crazy... i didn't even know you could do that.

"You" or any of us, really shouldn't do it. Because you have to grind down into the flesh inside the shell, it really should be a qualified vet or re-habber that does it.

 

[sjrrn]

I took my leopard to the vet this AM. I was there when the office opened. After a thoroughly exam and the vet trying to get her head to come out. No luck. There is lots of room around her head to move out. She then decided that it was low calcium level. So I am to give her an injection of Ca++ every day for 3 days and an antibiotic every third day and hopefully I will see her beautiful cherry face later today. I also have an oral concentrated form of liquid Ca++ for after the 3 days of injections. I do believe that she will be one tortoise who will need extra Ca++ for a long time. My six other tortoises are fine with their calcium levels.

 

[reptylefreek]

I would never attempt to cut into my tortoise....EVER! I have been thinking about taking her to a vet and asking about calcium shots, but i give her calcium everyday and she's doing very well despite her beak growth and the other things I've mentioned. She is a very shy tortoise and I'm afraid of a very big set back if I start taking her in for shots every week. I know that might sound dumb but when I received her, she didn't eat on and off for weeks and it took a very long time to get her settled. She seems to get stressed easily, so I just dont wanna go there yet. I think I will consult with a reptile vet very soon just to get some information.