Prairie Mom
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2014
- Messages
- 4,336
Thanks! I'll check it out@Prairie Mom , it's actually this one. There are many facebook pages, this one is the community one that I was referring to
Thanks! I'll check it out@Prairie Mom , it's actually this one. There are many facebook pages, this one is the community one that I was referring to
Proper temps change instantly once too much constant high humidity is applied in an attempt to counter other points of less than desirable husbandry...and additionally, there simply is not enough years and years of proof that supports the second part of your claim....there are other ways to raise healthy tortoise than to force them to live in an entirely unnatural wet environment....
My reds are over a year. I've kept my humidity at between 70-80% and daily soaks. I see them drink each day. They eat a nutritious, varied diet. And so far they look pretty smooth. So I definitely think humidity helps.View attachment 122850
What does, "Proper temps change instantly once too much constant high humidity is applied", specifically?
How many years does it take? Is >10 not enough?
...there are other ways to raise healthy tortoises than to force them to live in an entirely unnaturally dry environment.
You are correct, as you add humidity, temperatures drop (in an open topped enclosure). But once again, with proper husbandry your thermostat or you manually checking will show you that you need to increase temperatures and you will do such.
There is tons of ways to raise sulcatas, just like there are tons of ways to raise humans. There are some healthy humans and some overweight, unhealthy, damaged ones.
Which one would you prefer? Also, feel free to prove us all wrong and posts pictures of your tortoises. If I was a betting man, I know whois i'd say would be smoother/healthier.
Are you seriously trying to give some naive notion that you do not understand basics? If you have an enclosed space of soil....then add moisture/water to that soil---are you really trying to say that you do not know better that the overall temp/air is not going to change? You act as though folks here (more specifically newer tortoise hosts) should just automatically know this? so since they automatically know this they should just know to automatically tweak the space to adjust the temps? Hmmmm? well, then I am curious as to how it is then that there are so many RI shared on this very forum ---especially since it is supposedly riddled with "experts" in this very subject???? Mystery for sure....a constantly wet environment for lets say russians or CDTs or greeks can and usually does not end well---especially when someone here suggests that high 60s to 70s with wet soil for russians is preferred--idiotic is what that is...ask anyone here who has lost entire colonies of russians due to cool wet conditions....oh wait, now those same people will say that what they said was not that at all.....this is ridiculous....warm and humid hides/areas is beneficial---entirely wet and soggy stale aired enclosures are deadly--no matter what garbage you try to sale....there are some species of tortoise that naturally live in areas of moist soil, high humidity and remain steady temps for night---then there are species that do not....
Oh and one more thing in response....no, 10 years is NOT enough for any type of "revolutionary" changes to be presented as the "new" way, the "proper" way....this is an animal that is designed to live a number of years....in the wild, can you imagine that...?
What I am trying to convey is that your statement, " If you are referring to spraying cold (or hot) relative to the current temperature water into the environment, I agree but adding humidity DOES NOT change the temperature in and of itself. Perhaps YOU need to understand the basics of physics. I asked what you meant by the statement. I made no assumptions regarding the knowledge of anyone. You introduce RI as support for your argument - irrelevant! Your OPINION is that 10 years of successful husbandry using basic guidelines for temperature and humidity is insufficient. Thankfully, the regulatory agencies upon which you depend for testing drugs, foodstuffs, etc. do not hold that belief. The evidence is available. There are multiple ways to raise healthy torts. The warm/humid method just happens to be one of them. The lifespan of the specimen in question is another irrelevant tidbit you introduce in an attempt to support your thesis.
Please don't assume your understanding of the biology of reptiles is superior. I have been in disagreement with more than one of your posts but allow you the opportunity to express your view without attempts to deride you, your understanding or your views. I have over 50 years of experience keeping reptiles and amphibians of various types. I have the educational and practical background to understand the basics and advanced topics - and continue that education and practice to this day without subjective prejudice.
Fascinating stuff, though rather confusing for those of us without the experience to be sure which side of this discussion is likely to be correct.
I would add though, that it would seem to me, that pyramiding of some tortoises, particularly some groups of leopards maybe genetic, that certain members of a population are predisposed to pyramiding by chromosomal variation and that, in some cases, what we are seeing is evolution in action. In nature, a non-beneficial adaption (pyramiding for instance) would decrease the chances of the genes survival (through not being passed on), unless it was linked to an advantage (I don't know- more efficient digestion for example) that out-weighed the disadvantage.
Domestic tortoise populations and some 'wild' populations do not have all of the natural factors at work that normally contribute to natural selection; disease and predation will be artificially reduced and sick individuals, that would naturally die, are cared for and often survive to pass on their genetic information.
Not siding with anyone, but I would be surprised if, at least a tendency, toward being pyramided is genetic in at least some populations, and this gene is being passed on and thus, avoiding pyramiding in some individuals would be impossible whatever the humidity.
Fascinating stuff, though rather confusing for those of us without the experience to be sure which side of this discussion is likely to be correct.
I would add though, that it would seem to me, that pyramiding of some tortoises, particularly some groups of leopards maybe genetic, that certain members of a population are predisposed to pyramiding by chromosomal variation and that, in some cases, what we are seeing is evolution in action. In nature, a non-beneficial adaption (pyramiding for instance) would decrease the chances of the genes survival (through not being passed on), unless it was linked to an advantage (I don't know- more efficient digestion for example) that out-weighed the disadvantage.
Domestic tortoise populations and some 'wild' populations do not have all of the natural factors at work that normally contribute to natural selection; disease and predation will be artificially reduced and sick individuals, that would naturally die, are cared for and often survive to pass on their genetic information.
Not siding with anyone, but I would be surprised if, at least a tendency, toward being pyramided is genetic in at least some populations, and this gene is being passed on and thus, avoiding pyramiding in some individuals would be impossible whatever the humidity.
Fascinating stuff, though rather confusing for those of us without the experience to be sure which side of this discussion is likely to be correct.
I would add though, that it would seem to me, that pyramiding of some tortoises, particularly some groups of leopards maybe genetic, that certain members of a population are predisposed to pyramiding by chromosomal variation and that, in some cases, what we are seeing is evolution in action. In nature, a non-beneficial adaption (pyramiding for instance) would decrease the chances of the genes survival (through not being passed on), unless it was linked to an advantage (I don't know- more efficient digestion for example) that out-weighed the disadvantage.
Domestic tortoise populations and some 'wild' populations do not have all of the natural factors at work that normally contribute to natural selection; disease and predation will be artificially reduced and sick individuals, that would naturally die, are cared for and often survive to pass on their genetic information.
Not siding with anyone, but I would be surprised if, at least a tendency, toward being pyramided is genetic in at least some populations, and this gene is being passed on and thus, avoiding pyramiding in some individuals would be impossible whatever the humidity.
Like I said on the other post . I would like the names of the experts here . The school, phd or any other thing that makes anyone person an experts here . This is a bundle of information made by different keepers. What works for one may need to be tweaked to work for you . There is no one way layed out to follow . Take the information add a little common sense and run with it .