Does my redfoot tortoise look okay?

[JenniferinFL]

I've been worried about my redfoot tortoise's shell lately. It's just not as smooth as I wish it was..
I believe he's about 3.5 or 4 years old and I've owned him about 3 years. (At least, I believe it's a 'him')
His shell is 6" long when measured in just straight length, not over the top.

He was captive bred. When I got him, he was only about 3" long.
He seems healthy as a horse, eats really well and likes a variety of foods. We live in Florida so he spends a lot of time outside. He always has water available and part of his enclosure has always been kept humid. And, of course Florida is always humid anyways.

I believe I fed him too much Kale about a year or so ago. We were growing it in the garden and one site stated it was a recommended food, but, since then I've found several other sites that don't recommend it at all. Right now he alternates between mustard greens, dandelions and some hibiscus, though not too fond of hibiscus. He has a small hibiscus in his outdoor enclosure, but, he rarely takes a leaf off of it. For fruit he very much prefers strawberries that he has about every three days. But he also gets plums or peaches. After I'd owned him for a year, I started adding one small amount of animal protein once per week. Usually it's a very small piece of raw chicken or equally tiny piece of beef.

When he's indoors, he does have an MVB bulb that he will occasionally bask under, though usually he stays to the dark side of the tank.

Anyhow, here are the photos I took of him, they aren't very good, but I can retake them during the day if necessary.. Thank you for looking at them.. I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, or maybe he isn't too far off from normal?

(Yes, he does have a piece of mustard greens stuck on his face)

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Jennifer I moved your thread here so Terry is more likely to see it as well as our other Redfoot experts. Terry is an author and a breeder of Redfoots and has extensive experience with them. I hope you don't mind me moving you...

 

[JenniferinFL]

Jennifer I moved your thread here so Terry is more likely to see it as well as our other Redfoot experts. Terry is an author and a breeder of Redfoots and has extensive experience with them. I hope you don't mind me moving you...

Thank you, I wasn't completely sure where to post it..

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Jennifer your redfoot looks to be just a little bumpy.. but not that bad at all really. Most would love to see theirs look as good as yours at that age and size.

A 6" SCL redfoot usually looks like a female [ which yours does ] for another year.. and then those anal scutes will broaden and the tail will virtually double in size over the summer!.. IF it is in fact a male. { there are always exceptions and extremes }

The kale may have caused some rapid growth.. but that usually doesn't cause "bumpiness". The lack of "moisture/humidity" directly on the carapace [ the first year especially ] has proven to be the culprit for the cause of the 'bumpiness' in virtually all species of tortoises. At least my peers and I have found that to make a world of difference in our hundreds of hatchlings raised that way. The redfootcare link in my signature shows pics of how a few of mine raised from hatchlings look "misted-til-they-drip" virtually right out of the egg.

And hibiscus leaves and flowers are what my hatchlings are started on.. along with the dandelion greens. Get yours to eat them by offering nothing else for a week or so.. they are rich in calcium!

Hope this helps...

Terry K

BTW.. looks like there is a little "Brazilian" blood in the mix from that little bit of plastron marbling.

 

[JenniferinFL]

Ah, thank you, that's a relief to hear.. And it also probably explains why he isn't perfectly smooth. Funny thing really, his enclosure was always heavily misted, but I avoided misting him directly because he seemed to get awful grouchy about it. He does sit in his water bowl sometimes, but, probably has gotten little water directly on the carapace.
When I first got him, we were up in upstate NY and his enclosure was partially covered in plexiglass to keep more humidity in. I always misted that till it was dripping and the substrate was quite damp so his carapace probably did get soaked then. He also used to dig under the sphagnum in his enclosure and that would've been moist on the carapace. But, I only had a lid on him the first three months we had him because after that we moved to Florida and no longer 'needed' the plexiglass lid because humidity was already 90%. I don't remember when he quit burying himself under the sphagnum, but it was awhile ago.

I will try the hibiscus again, how long can he go without eating before it's a concern?

I had heard grape leaves were good too, so about a year ago we planted grape vines. BUT, they are muscadines because apparently that's the only grape vine we can grow in Florida. Of course, only after planting them did we realize that they were a completely different species and thus may not be good for tortoises at all.

Actually, that leads me to another question. Around here, we have two obvious different types of hibiscus. One with deep green and glossy leaves and one with lighter green, softer leaves. Does it matter which ones are fed to tortoises? Maybe there is a noticeable difference in flavor between the two and that's the reason for my tortoise's disdain for them. The ones I have planted have the dark green, glossy leaves.

Thanks again, I keep wanting to add another tortoise, but I was concerned that I was already keeping one improperly to cause the bumpiness. BUT, misting water on the carapace is a comparatively easy fix.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

After he gets over his 'grouchiness' watch him "dance" when you spray him!!!

Hibiscus is hibiscus.. they're all good! Same with grape leaves.

My guys ( same size as yours ) will bite into a plant and if they don't like it they will leave it alone.. in other words some of the "weeds" growing in their enclosure they eat and some they don't.

They won't starve themselves...

Terry K

 

[Candy]

Jennifer your little girl (I say it's a female) is beautiful. She looks very heavy as well is she? When Dale was 6 inches I posted pictures on TFO and most thought that Dale was a boy and he is so it is most likely that yours is a girl. Dale actually showed us his stuff at this size (that was weird). Anyway she looks beautiful and welcome to TFO. Maybe Danny will ring in here and give his opinion on the sex....we'll see.

 

[Madkins007]

A quick clarification about Hibiscus... the leaves are not really rich with calcium. They do have a good Calcium to Phosphorus ratio- 4.5:1, which is great- we like any number that is 1:1 or higher, with an average of all foods over time of about 1.5:1 or 2:1 or so.

However, Hibiscus is not rich in calcium in absolute terms. 100 grams of Hibiscus leaves contain only about 18mg of calcium. For comparison, Iceberg lettuce- considered a low nutrient food- contains 63mg in 100 grams! (Iceberg, however, has a lot of phosphorous in it, so the ratio is a low 0.95:1)

The Hibiscus flower petals are worse with 0 functional calcium in 100gr., but the 'calyx' (the outer green part of the flower) is LOADED with the stuff- 215 grams for a Ca: P of 5.85:1- but 100 grams of calyx is a lot of calyxes... calyxi?

If it is available, Mulberry leaves are a much better choice- 100 grams contain 200 mg of calcium, Ca: P of 10:1, and grape leaves have 81 mg in 100 g of food for a Ca: P of 4:1.

Hibiscus leaves and flowers are a great filler and snack, but not a great 'main food' choice. They do also provide fiber, micronutrients, and more- just not a lot of the major nutrients.

 

[JenniferinFL]

She or he, whichever it may be, is definitely heavy for it's size. Originally, we had named him Flash, but, we all pretty much call him Mr. Tortie. I don't know why, it just stuck. But, Ms Tortie doesn't sound as cute.. SO, probably in need of a name change. OR, we'll just keep calling him Mr Tortie.. I dunno.
You would think he'd be light to look at him, but when you pick him up he feels like a brick. Well, at least compared to what you would think he weighed. If that makes any sense.

I will definitely be spraying him now, he can kick up as much of a fuss as he wants.

He does have hibiscus in his outside enclosure and it's a smaller plant, so the leaves are right in reach. He spends a lot of time under it, but, not really eating it.

I had to look up Mulberry, I guess there is a Red Mulberry, Morus rubra, that will grow in Florida. I'll have to watch for one of those.

In the meantime, I'll try and see if he'll eat the grape leaves..

It'll be so weird if he's a she.. lol.. It'll take me awhile to get used to that.. But, yeah, I found some comparison photos and right now it even looks like a girl to me. I guess it could still get boy parts this summer. It's just a tiny bit over 6".
Though, I almost hope it's not a boy now. I don't know if I want to see tortoise "stuff".

Part of me wants to get another two redfoots and keep a trio of them. Is a trio a good amount to keep together if it's a male and two females?
But, the other side of me says just get a Leopard tortoise to keep in it's own enclosure and just have 2 tortoises. The only thing I know for sure is that I want another tortoise.. lol

I just wanted to make sure that mine looked healthy before I got another..

 

[Candy]

A quick clarification about Hibiscus... the leaves are not really rich with calcium. They do have a good Calcium to Phosphorus ratio- 4.5:1, which is great- we like any number that is 1:1 or higher, with an average of all foods over time of about 1.5:1 or 2:1 or so.

However, Hibiscus is not rich in calcium in absolute terms. 100 grams of Hibiscus leaves contain only about 18mg of calcium. For comparison, Iceberg lettuce- considered a low nutrient food- contains 63mg in 100 grams! (Iceberg, however, has a lot of phosphorous in it, so the ratio is a low 0.95:1)

The Hibiscus flower petals are worse with 0 functional calcium in 100gr., but the 'calyx' (the outer green part of the flower) is LOADED with the stuff- 215 grams for a Ca: P of 5.85:1- but 100 grams of calyx is a lot of calyxes... calyxi?

If it is available, Mulberry leaves are a much better choice- 100 grams contain 200 mg of calcium, Ca: P of 10:1, and grape leaves have 81 mg in 100 g of food for a Ca: P of 4:1.

Hibiscus leaves and flowers are a great filler and snack, but not a great 'main food' choice. They do also provide fiber, micronutrients, and more- just not a lot of the major nutrients.

Mark I definitely want the first copy and I'd like it signed when you write your first book on tortoises. You research a lot don't you? Thanks for the information on the Hibiscus and the Mulberry plants. I know that Douglas Beard had mentioned to me that his love Mulberry leaves. I have to get some now. I got two Hibiscus plants but so far Dale, Ruby, Eddie or Fernando won't touch them. They will eat a little of the leaves but that's it. Today we bought a grape plant for the tortoises, we'll see how they like those.

 

[JenniferinFL]

A quick clarification about Hibiscus... the leaves are not really rich with calcium. They do have a good Calcium to Phosphorus ratio- 4.5:1, which is great- we like any number that is 1:1 or higher, with an average of all foods over time of about 1.5:1 or 2:1 or so.

However, Hibiscus is not rich in calcium in absolute terms. 100 grams of Hibiscus leaves contain only about 18mg of calcium. For comparison, Iceberg lettuce- considered a low nutrient food- contains 63mg in 100 grams! (Iceberg, however, has a lot of phosphorous in it, so the ratio is a low 0.95:1)

The Hibiscus flower petals are worse with 0 functional calcium in 100gr., but the 'calyx' (the outer green part of the flower) is LOADED with the stuff- 215 grams for a Ca: P of 5.85:1- but 100 grams of calyx is a lot of calyxes... calyxi?

If it is available, Mulberry leaves are a much better choice- 100 grams contain 200 mg of calcium, Ca: P of 10:1, and grape leaves have 81 mg in 100 g of food for a Ca: P of 4:1.

Hibiscus leaves and flowers are a great filler and snack, but not a great 'main food' choice. They do also provide fiber, micronutrients, and more- just not a lot of the major nutrients.

Mark I definitely want the first copy and I'd like it signed when you write your first book on tortoises. You research a lot don't you? Thanks for the information on the Hibiscus and the Mulberry plants. I know that Douglas Beard had mentioned to me that his love Mulberry leaves. I have to get some now. I got two Hibiscus plants but so far Dale, Ruby, Eddie or Fernando won't touch them. They will eat a little of the leaves but that's it. Today we bought a grape plant for the tortoises, we'll see how they like those.

I found a nursery in KY that has red Mulberry, so I may just order one online. It doesn't look like anything I've seen at the local nurseries. Our local nurseries are all about decorative plants, not so much functional ones. There's a few that sell citrus, but, not even that much of those which is odd considering the area.
This is the site if anyone's interested:
http://www.shootingstarnursery.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=619

They also have hazelnuts that are even for my grow zone, so may have to pick one of those up too. Though, that's for me, not the tortoise..

 

[Madkins007]

Mark I definitely want the first copy and I'd like it signed when you write your first book on tortoises. You research a lot don't you? Thanks for the information on the Hibiscus and the Mulberry plants. I know that Douglas Beard had mentioned to me that his love Mulberry leaves. I have to get some now. I got two Hibiscus plants but so far Dale, Ruby, Eddie or Fernando won't touch them. They will eat a little of the leaves but that's it. Today we bought a grape plant for the tortoises, we'll see how they like those.

Ca-CHING! My presales numbers just doubled, assuming my wife keeps her promise to by the first copy!

I've been fiddling with a book, but there are so many good ones already available that I am not sure there is a niche I can fill. So, mostly I just research for myself and to share here. I'm glad some people like it!

 

[Laijla]

COOL - Shooting Star Nursery is right down the road from me! I'll have to pick up some mulberry & other goodies soon... when I worked in Georgia I would order items from that nursery in KY. Good to know!
and your tort does look very good!

A quick clarification about Hibiscus... the leaves are not really rich with calcium. They do have a good Calcium to Phosphorus ratio- 4.5:1, which is great- we like any number that is 1:1 or higher, with an average of all foods over time of about 1.5:1 or 2:1 or so.

However, Hibiscus is not rich in calcium in absolute terms. 100 grams of Hibiscus leaves contain only about 18mg of calcium. For comparison, Iceberg lettuce- considered a low nutrient food- contains 63mg in 100 grams! (Iceberg, however, has a lot of phosphorous in it, so the ratio is a low 0.95:1)

The Hibiscus flower petals are worse with 0 functional calcium in 100gr., but the 'calyx' (the outer green part of the flower) is LOADED with the stuff- 215 grams for a Ca: P of 5.85:1- but 100 grams of calyx is a lot of calyxes... calyxi?

If it is available, Mulberry leaves are a much better choice- 100 grams contain 200 mg of calcium, Ca: P of 10:1, and grape leaves have 81 mg in 100 g of food for a Ca: P of 4:1.

Hibiscus leaves and flowers are a great filler and snack, but not a great 'main food' choice. They do also provide fiber, micronutrients, and more- just not a lot of the major nutrients.

Mark I definitely want the first copy and I'd like it signed when you write your first book on tortoises. You research a lot don't you? Thanks for the information on the Hibiscus and the Mulberry plants. I know that Douglas Beard had mentioned to me that his love Mulberry leaves. I have to get some now. I got two Hibiscus plants but so far Dale, Ruby, Eddie or Fernando won't touch them. They will eat a little of the leaves but that's it. Today we bought a grape plant for the tortoises, we'll see how they like those.

I found a nursery in KY that has red Mulberry, so I may just order one online. It doesn't look like anything I've seen at the local nurseries. Our local nurseries are all about decorative plants, not so much functional ones. There's a few that sell citrus, but, not even that much of those which is odd considering the area.
This is the site if anyone's interested:
http://www.shootingstarnursery.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=619

They also have hazelnuts that are even for my grow zone, so may have to pick one of those up too. Though, that's for me, not the tortoise..

 

[llamas55]

you have a soaking area in your enclosure, right?
I'll take a book by Mark
and then have Terry and Terry and Yvonne and Tom write a chapter too

 

[JenniferinFL]

you have a soaking area in your enclosure, right?
I'll take a book by Mark
and then have Terry and Terry and Yvonne and Tom write a chapter too

Yes, I have a soaking area in his outside enclosure. Unfortunately, right now about half of it is a soaking area because of the heavy rain and we're looking at needing to elevate the grade of it a bit more so it doesn't flood.
He still has half the enclosure dry, but now he can walk down the slope a bit and almost submerge his shell completely.
We used weed stop fabric under part of it and it doesn't seem to drain well enough on the low end, possibly because of that.