Do I have any recourse????

[sunkisseddragons]

Hi tortoise forum friends,
I'm in a real pickle here and I need all the advise I can get-free from anger, judgement, and sarcasm, please.
Here is my story in a nutshell:
I have owned 2 desert tortoises for 13 years that I always had a hunch were male and female because one would always mount the other one. But,both shells were concave and both had large chin glands and tails. Last year I hibernated both of them as usual and when they awoke from hibernation in the spring, it was like they suddenly realized they were both males and fought constantly-very violently.

So, out of a panick to find a good home for one of them, I contacted a local zoo near my house that has Sulcatas,Galapagos, and a few other species of tortoises. I figured since they had tortoises and kept them in large pens, it would be a great place to let one of my males live.

So they adopted my male desert last spring. They put him in a pen with a few other full grown sulcatas, which I thought was strange at first, but they said he would be fine. I have been in agaony missing him all this time, I go to the zoo to visit him and get very sad. But he seemed to me to have been well taken care of and I figured he was in a better place. Last time I went, he was still in the pen with 3 large sullys and eating well. I thought since it was a zoo, they know what they are doing.

Soon afterthat, I adopted a sulcata tortoise to take the place of the one I gave up. My 3 year old sulcata and desert tortoise have been living together for the last 6 months outside. After reading all your wonderful posts and talking to many rescue groups, I have since learned that sulcatas carry pathogens that can kill my desert tortoise.

Now I feel like in a panick once again to not only figure out how to seperate my 2 tortoises from each other, but how I can retrieve my desert tortoise from the zoo (if he is not already dead). Do I have any recourse? I know it will be hard to get him back, if at all. But can I pull the "endangerment of an animal" card? Does anyone, preferably from recue organizations, give me advise on what to do?

If you are wondering what I would do with the other desert if I got him back, I will put up a gate to keep him in my other side yard. That is better than knowing he is at rick for getting sick at the zoo.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Elisa:

Are you in Texas? So does that mean that its a Texas tortoise?

Have you tried talking to the person who took the tortoise from you when you donated it to the zoo? Chances are they just might give it back to you.

I'm not surprised that your zoo doesn't know any better than to not mix species. But I AM surprised that they didn't quarantine the animal for a period of time. Zoos are VERY careful about adding animals without a quarantine period.

I doubt you have any recourse, but if you talk to the head zookeeper and tell him that you are now able to take care of your treasured pet, you miss him so terribly, he was in the family for X number of years and you just HAVE to have him back, etc. maybe they'll give him back to you.

Yvonne

 

[sunkisseddragons]

I will try

 

[bettinge]

I too doubt you have recourse, since an adoption, human or animal, is passing the rights of care to another!

If they are mistreating it, and you can prove it in a court room, than you do have recourse.

For your situation, I would reccomend a casual, calm and friendly conversation with the Zoo.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Yvonne has given you the best advice so I won't repeat it. But it does sound to me now that you are realizing that species should be kept seperate. I know there are several keepers that don't separate them and nothing has happened yet, but I think we won't know anything for a long time. Is it possible for you to make 2 pens? One with your gopherus and the other for the Sulcata? I am writing this because I am thinking you might be afraid that separating your torts would be difficult, but can't you just run a line of cinder block down the middle and thereby create 2 pens? It's cheap and easy that way...I just wanted to give you that idea...

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

What zoo?

 

[sunkisseddragons]

The only reason this is all making me so "frustrated" is because I don't entirely believe in the whole philosohy of keeping all species seperate.

We have raised tons of different species of reptiles over 17 years and have kept different species together that share the same habitats and have never had a problem. I have a WC chuckwalla that lives with one of my CB dragons outside and have been in the same enclosure for over 3 years-never a problem.

We have had different species of tree frogs in the same enclosure and never a problem. We've had fat-tailed geckos in with leopard geckos and collard lizards in with uromastyx and different uromastyx in with each other. We have never run into a single problem. I'm not clueless when it comes to reptiles and I'm not careless either. But I'd hate to give up my sully because of the "end all be all" answers. But at the same time, I want my animals safe.

It kills me to think I might have to let go of my Sulcata. I can't run a cinder block wall down the side they are on, but I can intall fencing on the other side of my yard where there is another side yard. But finances do not allow me to do that at this time. I've spoken to the zoo people and they will NOT reverse the adoption and they are even keeping him in the same pen with the sullys. He has been tested for foreign pathogens and has a clean bill of health. He's been with the sully's for a year and is fine. I'm OK with that as long as he is safe.

I gotta think though, that if he happens to get sick, they have a good vet on staff that will help him.

I have to not panick about this. I'm going to take a deep breath and give it some time.

 

[Yvonne G]

You're right, the zoos usually do have very good vets. The only think I worry about is the difference in size between the two types of tortoise. Your little desert tortoise doesn't stand a chance against a large sulcata if that sulcata takes it in his mind to go after the desert tortoise.

The reason we recommend not mixing a desert tortoise and a sulcata is because of the pathogens. Each species of tortoise, animal for that matter, comes equipped with pathogens that, over the eons, they have become accustomed to, and which don't cause the host any problems. But when you mix a tortoise from a different continent, then you are in effect introducing pathogens from another continent, and the tortoise isn't accustomed to them. They could make him sick or even dead.

I have taken in several desert tortoise in the past years who had been kept with sulcatas and who were VERY ill when turned in to me. It takes much longer to get these tortoises well than it takes to clear up a normal respiratory infection.

Its really a crap shoot. Maybe he won't get sick, but then again, maybe he will.

Yvonne