Crapping on FOR SALE posts

[Kayti]

My Sulcata is a rescue from a stupid breeder selling wholesale to a stupid chain pet store who sold her to a child living in an apartment. Her sibling died before I got her, and it took me months and LOTS of vet bills to get her to where she is now.
I don't care if you make a profit, I care if your actions harm/kill the tortoises you create.
And btw, it is totally possible to make money and still be responsible.

Wow, what a great summary of the position the vast majority of TFO people likely support. Well said!

Thanks Stephanie I was starting to get a bit frustrated there

And Tyler, that was my response to CGKeith's question, that I quoted above it.

 

[Jacqui]

How do I give reputation points? It's nice to see the occasional someone with common sense around here.

See on the upper left side where the person's name/ID is? Click on that. It takes you into their profile. There on the left side column, go down until you see the reputation part. That is where you can give them a neg or positive mark.

I like being able to make comments, but agree it's not a place to comment on what species is being bred/sold, what price is being asked, or adding your own ads to somebody else's threads. I would suggest if that happens (or you FEEL a post is of such a nature on your thread) contact one of the Mods to remove it or delete parts of it, which we will be happy to do. For everybody, that applies to ANY thread or post. Let us know if it bothers you, don't just silently fume about it. We want to try to keep this a site that is friendly for ALL users.

Jacqui

 

[Candy]

So...where did your animals come from

Just by chance one of you missed this post this is why Kayti posted what she did about he Sulcata. Someone did ask. Please read your posts first before insulting others. And may I add "Classic Case".

 

[TylerStewart]

So...where did your animals come from

Just by chance one of you missed this post this is why Kayti posted what she did about he Sulcata. Someone did ask. Please read your posts first before insulting others. And may I add "Classic Case".

Actually, the proper answer would have been "from a rescue," but she decided to turn it into yet another rant about how a stupid breeder wholesaled it off to a stupid chain pet store, who sold it to a stupid kid in a stupid apartment or whatever it was she said. Nobody is being insulted.

Just another "classic case" of the anti-sulcata debate being "crapped" into someone else's thread.

 

[pyxistort]

We (that is to say, the Moderators and Josh) are talking about having the For Sale threads going through a moderator just like the Upcoming Shows have to. Then the mod would approve the thread and close it at the same time. That way only the initial thread, posted by the person doing the selling, will show up on the thread.

I hope it is not going to happen, cause it will delay the timing of the post and increase the work for moderators. If OP doesn't find the post appropriate to the thread, s/he can request Mod to remove it. I don't want to see more regulation on the forum.

Scott

 

[Meg90]

Just another "classic case" of the anti-sulcata debate being "crapped" into someone else's thread.

So if you are "PRO sulcata" you can say whatever you want? But if you have a different opinion, you should keep your words to yourself? That doesn't sound like the practice of free speech to me. Perhaps you should reread things before you post sentences that denounce someone else's rights.

She is entitled to her opinion, that includes a description on how she got her pet.

And I agree with her.

I was talking to someone who runs a reptile specialty store about my tortoises and he blatantly asked me where I got mine because "all he can ever get in are sulcatas"

He doesn't stock them because people want a large tortoise. He stocks them because they are cute and little and cheap.

 

[TylerStewart]

Just another "classic case" of the anti-sulcata debate being "crapped" into someone else's thread.

So if you are "PRO sulcata" you can say whatever you want? But if you have a different opinion, you should keep your words to yourself? That doesn't sound like the practice of free speech to me. Perhaps you should reread things before you post sentences that denounce someone else's rights.

She is entitled to her opinion, that includes a description on how she got her pet.

And I agree with her.

I was talking to someone who runs a reptile specialty store about my tortoises and he blatantly asked me where I got mine because "all he can ever get in are sulcatas"

He doesn't stock them because people want a large tortoise. He stocks them because they are cute and little and cheap.

I'm not necessarily "pro-sulcata," I just think that they are attacked more than they should be, because you guys don't know better than to think that it happens in the case of every one sold (you said it yourself, there's only 10 sulcatas in the country being properly kept, remember?). It's a debate for another thread is my main point. I'm not trying to silence anyone, never have and never will. But when the thread is about people pulling topics off course (crapping), and you guys pull the topic off course (crapping), I politely suggested that you should take your rant to another thread. I'm not a villan, no matter now much you want to convince me that I am. I think clearly before I let my hands type; and I stand by every word I've ever said.... LOL, it's not like I'm wrong.

 

[Meg90]

Well then you need to reread a little closer. I said sulcata on this forum. And if you'll finish remembering the details, I also said large adult sulcata as well. I think before I type too.

And to my knowledge, this thread was not about off topic subjects in threads, it was about advertising your own products, or badmouthing someone else's merchandise in a for sale posting.

 

[Jacqui]

Some good points being made, but let's stay on the topic at hand. This thread is not the one to debate if sulcatas should be bred or sold. It is about if we should allow folks to take the sale threads of subject and get into comments on species being sold, if over priced, ect.., Or if perhaps we need these ads to be cleared by Mods. Or to simply close the thread so only the ad can be posted, no questions or comments allowed.

 

[Kayti]

Actually, the proper answer would have been "from a rescue," but she decided to turn it into yet another rant about how a stupid breeder wholesaled it off to a stupid chain pet store, who sold it to a stupid kid in a stupid apartment or whatever it was she said. Nobody is being insulted.

Just another "classic case" of the anti-sulcata debate being "crapped" into someone else's thread.

I'm not going to sugar coat my answers just because some people don't want to admit their actions have consequences.
My sulcata is a perfect example of what I'm talking about; people selling reptiles without adequately informing buyers.

I'm not crapping "anti-sulcata' rhetoric anywhere. I love my sulcata. I am saying that sellers have a responsibility to the animals they create, and if you don't inform buyers how to care for your tortoises, you're setting them up for disaster.
And you can't tell me that there isn't a problem with uneducated sulcata owners when I paid for it!

 

[TylerStewart]

Actually, the proper answer would have been "from a rescue," but she decided to turn it into yet another rant about how a stupid breeder wholesaled it off to a stupid chain pet store, who sold it to a stupid kid in a stupid apartment or whatever it was she said. Nobody is being insulted.

Just another "classic case" of the anti-sulcata debate being "crapped" into someone else's thread.

I'm not going to sugar coat my answers just because some people don't want to admit their actions have consequences.
My sulcata is a perfect example of what I'm talking about; people selling reptiles without adequately informing buyers.

I'm not crapping "anti-sulcata' rhetoric anywhere. I love my sulcata. I am saying that sellers have a responsibility to the animals they create, and if you don't inform buyers how to care for your tortoises, you're setting them up for disaster.
And you can't tell me that there isn't a problem with uneducated sulcata owners when I paid for it!

Do you feel better now that you were able to vent? Do you need a hug? In the meantime, like Jacqui said, let's try to stay on topic.

 

[Kayti]

I believe the topic is: freedom of speech on for sale posts, Tyler.

Just because I think there should be doesn't mean I'm off topic.

 

[CGKeith]

So...where did your animals come from

Just by chance one of you missed this post this is why Kayti posted what she did about he Sulcata. Someone did ask. Please read your posts first before insulting others. And may I add "Classic Case".

Classic case , of what??????

Yes, it was a question, not an insult and not just for Kayti. It was meant for all to read and question their priorities and actions. If you want to buy a wild caught animal, go ahead. But do so knowing the impact of that and the possiblities of additional health concerns. If you don't want to contribute to that industry then support and buy captive bred animals. It is an individual choice.

We all have animals. They are either wild caught or captive bred, of which a large portion are imported. Some from each category will end up not being cared for as well as they should. Because the people are stupid???? Sometimes yes, but usually not. Because they are ignorant of how to provide proper care is probably the biggest reason.

Can every importer, breeder, pet shop owner verify that they are not selling to a "stupid person" and then not sell to them. How would you qualify that? ..." I am sorry sir but you look/act/smell/walk/talk/type "stupid", you can't buy from me."

Or..."all tortoises/turles under 4" are sold for scientific reasons...but not to stupid people".....

Would you want a rule that the forum must have a care sheet posted for all types of tortoises/turtles in order for any of them to ever be sold??? Does that make the forum stupid???

No, personal responsibility should cover it.

Can good information/care sheet be given to a buyer? Sure, I even send links to this site and some others to try and get people to learn, but can you make them look or read ???

Have you read every page of your owners manual (you know, the one in the glove compartment) for every vehicle that you have ever owned???? Does that make you stupid??? Does it make the car dealer stupid??? Maybe the manufacturer????

It all comes back to if you are legitimately interested in an ad here, on this forum, and you have questions about that animal (or products) or want to know how they are taken care of because it will help you determine if you want to purchase or not, then ask or send a PM.

If you want to take up a discussion about other things, tell others that you will sell yours cheaper or argue your personal feelings about something, start a new post in the proper section or keep it to yourself. (I think with the exception of something not being ID'd properly.)

 

[Kayti]

Can every importer, breeder, pet shop owner verify that they are not selling to a "stupid person" and then not sell to them. How would you qualify that? ..." I am sorry sir but you look/act/smell/walk/talk/type "stupid", you can't buy from me."

To clarify, I never called these tortoise buyers stupid. I called them uneducated.
Breeders and stores that sell baby tortoises they know how to care for to people that don't are stupid, and more so, just lazy.

It's so easy to give out good care sheets or good links. And you're right, you can't guarantee that people will read them and care. But at least you're giving them a chance to, and really that's all you can do.

 

[CGKeith]

Wait, I have more.

Why do we have so many different sections on this forum??????

If I start talking about breeding greek tortoises in the box turtle section will my post not get moved to the greek section???

It's not about free speech, it's about some bit of organization and some common courtesy.

---

What does this have to do with crapping on someone's thread? Was there someone on here posting things for sale in this forum that you think deserved this?

This question was asked a while back and has yet to be answered.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Kayti...This thread is not about Sulcata breeders or buyers. It's about crapping on a for sale ad/thread. Very simple. So if you want to talk about breeding, selling, not caring for Sulcata start another thread. Take your argument to another, proper thread please.
It would be under Debatable Topics...

 

[Kayti]

You're right, it is getting pretty off-topic now. I just didn't wan't to be mis-interpreted.

 

[Jacqui]

I think we all need to try to show each other the respect we think we ourselves deserve. We all have our own beliefs and our own lines as to when those beliefs are crossed. I know it's hard to walk away from comments that go against your beliefs, cross your lines, make you feel misquoted/understood. ect.., but let's all give it a try. Josh allowed us to create this debate section to air our not so friendly opinion differences while leaving the regular sections friendly for all. Even in this section there are rules. We all realize that it's natural for one comment to lead to another comment often going a bit OT (off topic) in a thread. This is normally allowed in this forum with quite a bit of leway.

However, the general rule is that if the creator of the thread feels it is getting too off topic, they have a right to ask it to be put back onto the subject of the thread, in this case it's about sale ads, not sulcatas. As Mods, a couple of us have tried to nicely steer things back on topic.

Please, take this as a last warning if you wish, keep it on subject. Do not bring up sulcatas or "stupid" owners/breeders/sellers/humans. These are wonderful hot topics and would be great for you to start NEW debate threads on them, just not this thread.

Thank you.

 

[dmmj]

Free speech does not exist on forums, we all agree to certain rules when we join and we should abide by those rules, I get tee'd off when people proclaim " free speech" where it does not exist, free speech is congress shall make no law abridging speech, forums can decide what they want on their forums, and we of course can either abide by those rules or leave. I have sometimes posted commetn son for sale thread but I don't believe I "crapped" on anyone's thread, if I have then pleasse accept my apoligies.

---

Actually, the proper answer would have been "from a rescue," but she decided to turn it into yet another rant about how a stupid breeder wholesaled it off to a stupid chain pet store, who sold it to a stupid kid in a stupid apartment or whatever it was she said. Nobody is being insulted.

Just another "classic case" of the anti-sulcata debate being "crapped" into someone else's thread.

I'm not going to sugar coat my answers just because some people don't want to admit their actions have consequences.
My sulcata is a perfect example of what I'm talking about; people selling reptiles without adequately informing buyers.

I'm not crapping "anti-sulcata' rhetoric anywhere. I love my sulcata. I am saying that sellers have a responsibility to the animals they create, and if you don't inform buyers how to care for your tortoises, you're setting them up for disaster.
And you can't tell me that there isn't a problem with uneducated sulcata owners when I paid for it!

I don't agree that the seller has the responsibility, I have always said that it is the buyer's responsibilty, would it be nice if the seller gave out care sheets, yes of course it would, but they do not have to, We certainly do not need more regulation.

 

[Homer]

Just another "classic case" of the anti-sulcata debate being "crapped" into someone else's thread.

So if you are "PRO sulcata" you can say whatever you want? But if you have a different opinion, you should keep your words to yourself? That doesn't sound like the practice of free speech to me. Perhaps you should reread things before you post sentences that denounce someone else's rights.

"Free Speech", this is a moderated tortoise forum. If you want to rant and rave about your rights you need to go elsewhere. Your rights are limited to what the moderators decide to allow.

There is no place for all those extra comments that were posted on Tyler's "for sale" thread. He is one of the good guys and the rest of you know that. For goodness sake, he is honored as a preferred seller by this website.

If you want to save the world do it in another thread, but not in the "for sale" thread. And if the ad is a scam just let a moderator know and they will remove it.

All this screaming about "rights" and "protecting the innocent" needs to stay in the debatable section and not the "for sale" section. End of story.

Brian