Care Sheets for Pet Stores

[webskipper]

My local Reptile Specialist store actually wants care sheets from us.

Can we poll the breeders and come up with care sheets that we can agree on for the breeds that we do keep?

I believe that educated clients make the best customers. If I saw the care sheet at a pet store with the Forum's on it, I would be more inclined to buy there. The pet would then have a better chance at a happy life.

I'd like to start off the process by shedding light on Dean the Tortoise Man's care sheet http://www.thetortoiseman.com/care.html Dean has bred and raised Greek Ibera's and Marginateds for 20 some years.

According to the sheet, a new owner does not have to dump hundred of dollars in fancy lighting or housing. Basic necessities to ensure a happy pet.

 

[Tom]

This sounds like a fantastic idea to me. Back in the 90's when I was in the pet store we used to hand out some stuff from CTTC with every reptile or reptile set-up purchase. We made our own care sheets too, but used their lists of edible and toxic plants. We had happy customers and happy animals.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

My local Reptile Specialist store actually wants care sheets from us.

I think that's a major breakthrough that could have far-reaching positive consequences for tortoises and owners (God, what I would give to have had one when we first got Taco, even if it was in Spanish!).

There are several links recommended on here often for care sheets on various species of tortoise. I'll be Yvonne or Danny could set you up with many of them from memory. That might be a better start than trying to compile TFO care sheets that don't plagiarize those already written.

Of course I don't know enough about Greek's or any other species to critique thetortoiseman's care sheet, so I will leave that to others on this forum.

Meg?

 

[Yvonne G]

I think the only care sheet that we have is the one in the Hermann's forum by Chris at Garden State Tortoise. I'm sure if you contact him he'll allow you to re-print it giving him credit.

You can copy any of the care sheets off the WCT site, chelonia.org, as long as you give them the credit. But contact Derryll Seneke at [email protected] to be sure.

You can say something like published by World Chelonian Trust and distributed by forum.org/

I don't know if Dr. Joe Heinen, DC would allow you to copy his care sheets, but you can contact him and ask him. He has care sheets for Leopard/sulcata, redfoot and Russian. There is no contact number for him, but you can probably join one of his YAHOOgroups and talk to him there.

 

[chadk]

The problem is that most good caresheets will tell the customer to turn around and leave the store running and don't look back!! But, if they fall prey to buying one of the poor wild caught creatures, they should still turn and run before being talked into an arm load of $$$ item that are not only NOT necessary, but can flat out be fatal if used with your new critter.

I can see a smaller mom and pop type store doing this, but not a big chain store. They want your baby tort to come with a 10 gal glass tank, reptile sand, and massive heat lamp!

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

redfoots = terry's care sheets = my vote

 

[webskipper]

Yes, every author will get credit for their work. The TFO logo and web address somewhere at the top like stationary.

That's not the issue. It's the quick guide.

I can say that the care sheet from the Tortoiseman is really working fine for my Ibera's and I'll know know for sure that I am following it correctly when I see the results in a year but, he was following his own care sheet for 20 years. So yeah, Marginated and Ibera sheets are done providing he gives permission.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

If someone posts these I'd love to print some and see if local places are interested in them

 

[Madkins007]

I'd love to take a crack at writing a Red-foot sheet to be reviewed by the community at large. I don't have the depth of experience, but I like writing and research.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Tortoises and turtles come in 'species' not breeds...if we are going to help newbies and take care sheets around to pet stores we need to sound a little bit knowledge about the subject. Dogs are separated by breeds, tortoises are species...
here is Joe's email, if you go onto the Carolina pet shop web site I think there is a phone number there...

Joe Heinen DC <[email protected]>

 

[webskipper]

Tortoises and turtles come in 'species' not breeds...

We know Canis lupus familiaris is not further broken down into subspecies. We were trying to get you into the discussion, Maggie, so you'll share some wisdom.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

I'd love to take a crack at writing a Red-foot sheet to be reviewed by the community at large. I don't have the depth of experience, but I like writing and research.

You'd be the one to do it right, Mark.

Just make sure you give yourself some credit for "compiling."

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Tortoises and turtles come in 'species' not breeds...

We know Canis lupus familiaris is not further broken down into subspecies. We were trying to get you into the discussion, Maggie, so you'll share some wisdom.

Nope, I compiled the Vet list and it was difficult and seemed to go on forever and I don't want to do anything like that again.
I might do a small part of it...might...the main reason I posted on this thread is because of the use of the word 'breeds'. Tortoises come in species, it's just a small thing, but I think it's important to sound like we know what we're talking about to the general public. I don't mean any disrespect, I am just trying to get us all on the same page.
I personally think what you are talking about would be a huge undertaking. How many different species are there? How would you decide which species to pick? Are you going to make a care sheet for every species out there or just the popular ones? Sulcata, Redfoot, Russians, box turtles, Hermanns, Burmese, who am I leaving out? Do you see what I am trying to say?

 

[fhintz]

To follow up on Chad's point, one way to make these more broadly appealing would be to reference the products that pet stores DO carry. For instance, I have ceramic heat emitters, fixtures to hold them, UVB bulb, water dishes, some plastic plants, and a half log hide that are all pet store bought. The Petsmart near me even carries a cypress mulch product (though more expensive than the bulk bags at Lowe's). Even for chains, there are some smart/caring managers who would be interested in really good care sheets, especially if they do reference add on sales.

 

[webskipper]

Good point. General equipment terms should be used because some stores only carry certain lines of dry goods because of what their wholesalers carry.

 

[Madkins007]

OK, so is there a place we can post possible care sheets for discussion?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I'd love to take a crack at writing a Red-foot sheet to be reviewed by the community at large. I don't have the depth of experience, but I like writing and research.

Mark you/anyone would have to demonstrate the results of your/their "Caresheet" to be determined practical or useable.. would you not?

I'm still waiting to see what you've done to the 2 I sent you awhile back.. with the "improvements"(???) you made. We can't review your re-write without evidence now can we?

What is this thing about re-inventing the wheel? I don't care if it's baking oatmeal cookies - ya'll are for some reason compelled to improve/change it - and wonder why they don't come out the way you expected.. and then blame it on the recipe???????????????

It's right under your noses gang.. how much "proof" do you need? Does anyone else provide pics of their "caresheet-results"?

If you want to know how to care for sulcata's you go to Richard Fife.. ask him what his yearlings, etc. look like.

If you want yearling Mediterranean demonstrations - I don't have to tell you who.

Redfoots.. look at the 'redfootcare' link in my signature.. there are a few examples of how they can/should look.

Change any of "our" caresheets and you could very well be putting your tortoises in jeopardy? Why would you want to chance it or experiment with yours?

We may very well have made a breakthrough with these petstores.. let's get it right, huh?

Not everybody has "years" of experience at raising a Spider tortoise.. so they can't really write a caresheet about them. And it would be really stupid to ask a Leopard tortoise breeder how to. The point is.. let's all do what each of us do best and let the other guy do what he does best and we can and will make it happen.

You computer guys start this..... we'll follow..

Anybody listening?

Terry K

 

[Madkins007]

I'll be happy to discuss any of the several topics you bring up in another thread-
- the idea that only experts should write the books
- the idea that photos are adequate proof of husbandry techniques
- the idea that being good in one subject does not help in others
- the idea that 'your' caresheets are so good that others may put tortoises in jeopardy (after all, there are some very experienced and knowledgeable people out there who disagree with some of the things on your caresheets)

But before you go bashing a sheet I may write, why not at least wait until you see it?

Hey, no one is stopping you from writing one, or forcing anyone to adopt mine.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

I think the OP's point was to attempt to rewrite some pet store policies and instructions, that are often delivered by employees who are either completely inexperienced in tortoise care or told what to say by managers who are hoping to maximize sales.

I've seen discussions before on this forum about offering better caresheets to pet stores and hoping the employees/managers will read them and revise their care practices and recommendations.

It's a laudable goal and would probably include a lot of your prescriptions with full citation of authorship. I guess I don't understand the basis for your post, Terry.

 

[jblayza]

I'd love to take a crack at writing a Red-foot sheet to be reviewed by the community at large. I don't have the depth of experience, but I like writing and research.

Mark you/anyone would have to demonstrate the results of your/their "Caresheet" to be determined practical or useable.. would you not?

I'm still waiting to see what you've done to the 2 I sent you awhile back.. with the "improvements"(???) you made. We can't review your re-write without evidence now can we?

What is this thing about re-inventing the wheel? I don't care if it's baking oatmeal cookies - ya'll are for some reason compelled to improve/change it - and wonder why they don't come out the way you expected.. and then blame it on the recipe???????????????

It's right under your noses gang.. how much "proof" do you need? Does anyone else provide pics of their "caresheet-results"?

If you want to know how to care for sulcata's you go to Richard Fife.. ask him what his yearlings, etc. look like.

If you want yearling Mediterranean demonstrations - I don't have to tell you who.

Redfoots.. look at the 'redfootcare' link in my signature.. there are a few examples of how they can/should look.

Change any of "our" caresheets and you could very well be putting your tortoises in jeopardy? Why would you want to chance it or experiment with yours?

We may very well have made a breakthrough with these petstores.. let's get it right, huh?

Not everybody has "years" of experience at raising a Spider tortoise.. so they can't really write a caresheet about them. And it would be really stupid to ask a Leopard tortoise breeder how to. The point is.. let's all do what each of us do best and let the other guy do what he does best and we can and will make it happen.

You computer guys start this..... we'll follow..

Anybody listening?

Terry K

I understand completely, if it aint broke, don't try to fix it.