Care Sheet Bowsprit Tortoises

CarolM

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@Sterant, @KevinGG @Tom,

Good Afternoon All,

Please, Please can I ask a huge favour from you. Would you be able to write a care sheet for Bowsprit tortoises, for those of us with Angulata tortoises to refer back to?

Thank you

Carol
 

CarolM

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I think people usually have to have experience with a species before they write a care sheet. Just saying, you know?

Here is the effort of one such person(s). http://startortoises.net/angulate-care.html
Thanks Will.

I know that Dan has done alot of research on them already. That KevinGG has been raising a few and has been raising some hatchlings quite succussfully and Tom seems to know alot about most tortoises. I have read both Startortoises care sheet and another one written by Misty Corton. Just thought that having one on the forum would be great as it will all be in one place and easier to refer back to. As well as being able to be updated every once in a while. Do you by any chance have experience with them and can thereby contribute towards the care sheet?
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Thanks Will.

I know that Dan has done alot of research on them already. That KevinGG has been raising a few and has been raising some hatchlings quite succussfully and Tom seems to know alot about most tortoises. I have read both Startortoises care sheet and another one written by Misty Corton. Just thought that having one on the forum would be great as it will all be in one place and easier to refer back to. As well as being able to be updated every once in a while. Do you by any chance have experience with them and can thereby contribute towards the care sheet?

only wild ones, no captive care. But I did see them eating in the wild. I posted those pictures in 2012 or 2013, but took them down as they were also with some Geometric images that seem to excite people to want to poach them.
 

Tom

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Hi Carol! I'd love to do a care sheet after I've got some experience caring for them for a few years and I see what works for me and what doesn't. RIght now, all the care info is very conflicting. This is one of the main reasons for the formation of our Chersina working group. some people say put them outside and leave them alone. Others say putting them outside results in their death and they must be kept indoors under more controlled conditions. Then we have our attempts at understanding how they live in the wild, with great contributions from people like Will, you and Jeanine. Our group has been gathering info and talking to as many people as we can find. We've got some theories and lots of speculation, and we've talked to many people with many years of experience, but this is still a great big puzzle because opposing care strategies result in both success and failure. Much more study, info and experience will be needed by me before I could contribute anything useful to a care sheet.
 

CarolM

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only wild ones, no captive care. But I did see them eating in the wild. I posted those pictures in 2012 or 2013, but took them down as they were also with some Geometric images that seem to excite people to want to poach them.
Yes I remember reading that at some time. I forgot about that. And it is so sad that a person cannot even share pictures for the enjoyment of all without having to worry about that sort of thing.
 

CarolM

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Hi Carol! I'd love to do a care sheet after I've got some experience caring for them for a few years and I see what works for me and what doesn't. RIght now, all the care info is very conflicting. This is one of the main reasons for the formation of our Chersina working group. some people say put them outside and leave them alone. Others say putting them outside results in their death and they must be kept indoors under more controlled conditions. Then we have our attempts at understanding how they live in the wild, with great contributions from people like Will, you and Jeanine. Our group has been gathering info and talking to as many people as we can find. We've got some theories and lots of speculation, and we've talked to many people with many years of experience, but this is still a great big puzzle because opposing care strategies result in both success and failure. Much more study, info and experience will be needed by me before I could contribute anything useful to a care sheet.
Thank you Tom, well noted and fully understood.
 

Sterant

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@Sterant, @KevinGG @Tom,

Good Afternoon All,

Please, Please can I ask a huge favour from you. Would you be able to write a care sheet for Bowsprit tortoises, for those of us with Angulata tortoises to refer back to?

Thank you

Carol
Carol - when we put up a care sheet it will be full of actual captive maintenance case studies, successes, failures, and a depth of experience that earned us the right to do so in a meaningful way. I hope that we can do that in 3 to 5 years. Until then, the startortoises.net link that Will included, as well as Misty's site you referenced earlier are a couple solid resources.

BUT - I will commit to you that as I learn more from interviewing others with experience, I will post their stories here. Perhaps that will provide some value along the way.
 

CarolM

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Carol - when we put up a care sheet it will be full of actual captive maintenance case studies, successes, failures, and a depth of experience that earned us the right to do so in a meaningful way. I hope that we can do that in 3 to 5 years. Until then, the startortoises.net link that Will included, as well as Misty's site you referenced earlier are a couple solid resources.

BUT - I will commit to you that as I learn more from interviewing others with experience, I will post their stories here. Perhaps that will provide some value along the way.
Thank you Dan. Okay I understand and am obviously jumping the gun. And any stories will be of great value and very much appreciated. Thank you guys. On a positive note at least people can understand that the care sheets already up on the forum have been well studied for a good many years. Not that I am saying that they weren't just that the above is a point in case that you guys make sure of your info before you add it.
 

kingsley

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I have done a lot of thinking over the past few years about the captive care of this species . All I can say is keeping them out in the arizona desert ended up being a disaster, I lost 4 adults in the past few years, and to avoid driving me to the brink of insanity, i decide to back track to the fundamentals by studying the weather in the southern cape and garden route!! AND HERE ARE THE FINDINGS !!! Average humidity 70% , High temp 80F , Mild winter lows in the 50F. Average sunlight 7-8 hours. And highest rainfall in the cape.
Base don the above data , I have moved all my Angulates indoors and have set them up in controlled environments with timed photo periods , and humidity and heat controls. This task was just completed a few weeks ago and I am seeing some positive results already. I will share all my findings with you all.
 

CarolM

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I have done a lot of thinking over the past few years about the captive care of this species . All I can say is keeping them out in the arizona desert ended up being a disaster, I lost 4 adults in the past few years, and to avoid driving me to the brink of insanity, i decide to back track to the fundamentals by studying the weather in the southern cape and garden route!! AND HERE ARE THE FINDINGS !!! Average humidity 70% , High temp 80F , Mild winter lows in the 50F. Average sunlight 7-8 hours. And highest rainfall in the cape.
Base don the above data , I have moved all my Angulates indoors and have set them up in controlled environments with timed photo periods , and humidity and heat controls. This task was just completed a few weeks ago and I am seeing some positive results already. I will share all my findings with you all.
This is so awesome. So glad that more and more info is being put on the forum about them. Thank you so much.
 

CarolM

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I have done a lot of thinking over the past few years about the captive care of this species . All I can say is keeping them out in the arizona desert ended up being a disaster, I lost 4 adults in the past few years, and to avoid driving me to the brink of insanity, i decide to back track to the fundamentals by studying the weather in the southern cape and garden route!! AND HERE ARE THE FINDINGS !!! Average humidity 70% , High temp 80F , Mild winter lows in the 50F. Average sunlight 7-8 hours. And highest rainfall in the cape.
Base don the above data , I have moved all my Angulates indoors and have set them up in controlled environments with timed photo periods , and humidity and heat controls. This task was just completed a few weeks ago and I am seeing some positive results already. I will share all my findings with you all.
@Kingsley can I ask what your controlled temps are and the humidty you are working with?
 

CarolM

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I have done a lot of thinking over the past few years about the captive care of this species . All I can say is keeping them out in the arizona desert ended up being a disaster, I lost 4 adults in the past few years, and to avoid driving me to the brink of insanity, i decide to back track to the fundamentals by studying the weather in the southern cape and garden route!! AND HERE ARE THE FINDINGS !!! Average humidity 70% , High temp 80F , Mild winter lows in the 50F. Average sunlight 7-8 hours. And highest rainfall in the cape.
Base don the above data , I have moved all my Angulates indoors and have set them up in controlled environments with timed photo periods , and humidity and heat controls. This task was just completed a few weeks ago and I am seeing some positive results already. I will share all my findings with you all.
Oops I just realised that I ment to include you in the post but put Kevin's name instead.
 

kingsley

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View attachment 227258
@Kingsley can I ask what your controlled temps are and the humidty you are working with?
It is winter here and I am simulating your winter , with cooler nights and days up into the mid 70s . I am accomplishing this relatively easily in a room with lights turning off at night letting the room cool down and ramping up heat lamps and uvb tubes to simulate dawn to dusk with simple lamp timers. I spray them down in the morning and by evening the substrate is relatively dry. I have two humidifiers running in the room controlled by an hygrostat set at 70% ambient RH. I have tried this out for two weeks now and the animals seems happier , they are all housed individually in cattle feed troughs temporarily. I am in the process of completing cages now that will house them individually in the future. Here they are in different stages . 56DA33EF-B1BA-45F7-B867-AB3D2E3BF5C2.jpeg 5ED922F8-CA1F-4149-AF41-B79A67AB1715.jpeg 3D8E69E7-FF99-4869-8352-12B9E5EAE8AE.jpeg
 

Sterant

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Looks great Kingsley. When you say "The animals seem happier"....what is it that you are seeing that makes you say that?
 

kingsley

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Increased activity, moving around the enclosures alert, increased appetite,
 

kingsley

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C181C8C1-4142-48F1-BBEB-EBECB1F28A4D.jpeg
This is an annual breakdown of weather by the Month for the Garden route , The Relative Humidity is not included in this analysis that averages in the low 70s year round.
 

CarolM

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View attachment 227352
This is an annual breakdown of weather by the Month for the Garden route , The Relative Humidity is not included in this analysis that averages in the low 70s year round.
I cannot comment about the garden route as I don't live there. But maybe we can get @JeanineD to come onboard and comment. As far as Cape Town is concerned that would more or less be the same except for the last few years where the temp is lower on some winter days but it also feels like summer days quite often. The summer time temp lately is about 30c up and lately sometimes even going into the high 37c's. But this is due to the weather changes we have been having and the drought. Normally winter would be mostly rain but again with the drought, we have been experiencing very little of it over the last two years. I haven't been paying much attention to what the temps have been. But I will start doing that and will share it with you guys. So that you can get an idea of the temps over here.
 

Sterant

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Increased activity, moving around the enclosures alert, increased appetite,
Thats Great Kingsley. Thanks. I don't know if you saw Wills post yesterday linking to the distribution map of angulates in Southern Africa, but the range is huge, and most certainly includes varied climates. The chart you shared tells a cool, wet story for sure!
 
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