BLADDER STONES!!

[Tori67]

So my tortoise is going to get a bladder stone removed in 2 weeks. It is quite large, and I’ve been feeding him zero/low oxalate greens. I’ve been bathing him every single day for hydration, and he has been passing a LOT of urates. (pictures below, some include poop sorry!)

He’s never passed this many urates before. Is it possible that the stone is breaking down to an extent? The outer layers of the stone are very “onion” like and “flaky” which means that it will be easier to remove - per the vet. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas or experiences

 

[Tom]

Bladder stone formation in tortoises has nothing to do with oxalates. If your vet is telling you that, then they don't know tortoises. Most of them don't know tortoises.

Stone formation is by-product of protein digestion with a lack of hydration.

It is very possible that good hydration is helping to pass the urate stone bit by bit. I would get a second opinion from a different vet before surgery.

 

[Tori67]

Unfortunately this is the best reptile vet available near me (I drive 2 hours). He was rescued, and I have no idea what he was given in terms of food. What would you recommend I do next?

The vet has done many surgeries on reptiles. He removed a stuck egg out of my boyfriends corn snake, which can be a risky surgery. He was going to try go through the cloaca, break up the stone, and then remove it. I think medically he knows what he is doing per surgeries, etc.

But with diet I think you are right. What do you think?

 

[KarenSoCal]

As Tom said, urates are the by-product of protein digestion. So hydration is the key to preventing, or at least lessening, the urates. As long as the urates are runny or like toothpaste, it's OK, since they are a natural byproduct.

The problem is when the urates get clumpy due to not enough hydration. They clump together very tightly, are not passed by the bladder, and then grow in size until they can no longer be passed.

Keeping him well hydrated is the first step. But what you feed him is also important. Since protein is the "bad guy" here, look at what foods you are offering.

If you buy lots of his greens at the grocery store, you probably buy about the same items as most of us. A good tort meal might be some spinach, bok choy, mustard greens, some alfalfa for fiber, and maybe a garnish of watercress...sounds pretty good, right?

In reality you have just fed a meal of several of the 10 highest protein veggies. All of these are good foods, but not together, or in large quantities.

A bit of spinach, OR a sprinkle of alfalfa, OR some mustard greens...you see what I'm saying. Put in some chard, radicchio, endive/escarole, safe weeds from your yard, safe flowers, moringa, and some Mazuri pellets. You can also order dried amendments from Will, a member here, at
www.kapidolofarms.com or grow your own food for him. Some great seed mixes are available at www.tortoisesupply.com Tyler is also a member here.

Here's the link for the 10 veggies that are highest in protein.

High protein vegetables: The top 10 and how to eat them

Vegetables are good sources of vitamins, minerals, and fiber. Some are also good sources of protein. Learn about the top 10 vegetables for protein here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[Tori67]

As Tom said, urates are the by-product of protein digestion. So hydration is the key to preventing, or at least lessening, the urates. As long as the urates are runny or like toothpaste, it's OK, since they are a natural byproduct.

The problem is when the urates get clumpy due to not enough hydration. They clump together very tightly, are not passed by the bladder, and then grow in size until they can no longer be passed.

Keeping him well hydrated is the first step. But what you feed him is also important. Since protein is the "bad guy" here, look at what foods you are offering.

If you buy lots of his greens at the grocery store, you probably buy about the same items as most of us. A good tort meal might be some spinach, bok choy, mustard greens, some alfalfa for fiber, and maybe a garnish of watercress...sounds pretty good, right?

In reality you have just fed a meal of several of the 10 highest protein veggies. All of these are good foods, but not together, or in large quantities.

A bit of spinach, OR a sprinkle of alfalfa, OR some mustard greens...you see what I'm saying. Put in some chard, radicchio, endive/escarole, safe weeds from your yard, safe flowers, moringa, and some Mazuri pellets. You can also order dried amendments from Will, a member here, at
www.kapidolofarms.com or grow your own food for him. Some great seed mixes are available at www.tortoisesupply.com Tyler is also a member here.

Here's the link for the 10 veggies that are highest in protein.

High protein vegetables: The top 10 and how to eat them

Vegetables are good sources of vitamins, minerals, and fiber. Some are also good sources of protein. Learn about the top 10 vegetables for protein here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Okay I understand thank you! He was a rescue, and I haven’t fed him high protein food. He gets a lot of weeds such as plantain, dandelion, etc. could the stone be cause by chronic dehydration? Because as he passes more urates, the better he seems to feel

 

[Tori67]

He’s being soaked every day, and given a small bit of cucumber every other day for hydration with his food

 

[KarenSoCal]

He’s being soaked every day, and given a small bit of cucumber every other day for hydration with his food

I'm so glad that you feed him weeds! That's great!

And yes, the stone certainly can be from chronic dehydration! That would be the most likely cause. The high protein food would make it worse.

Another thing you can do is spritz his greens with a bit of water, so they are damp when he eats them.

Good to hear he feels better. I would have him x-rayed before considering surgery. In light of how much he is passing, an x-ray could tell you how much stone is remaining. Is it creamy when it passes? Are you finding pebbles of stone?

 

[Tori67]

That’s what I was thinking! I was going to talk to the vet and see if we can do another CT scan/X-ray to see if the stone is getting smaller. He has been SO hungry today, and running around like crazy. Previously he wouldn’t eat at all, and was very lethargic.

And no pebbles of stone, it’s more of like a cottage cheese consistency. Looks more gritty than anything. I posted picture on my original post if you check them out!!

 

[KarenSoCal]

That’s what I was thinking! I was going to talk to the vet and see if we can do another CT scan/X-ray to see if the stone is getting smaller. He has been SO hungry today, and running around like crazy. Previously he wouldn’t eat at all, and was very lethargic.

And no pebbles of stone, it’s more of like a cottage cheese consistency. Looks more gritty than anything. I posted picture on my original post if you check them out!!

Yes, I saw them, but it's hard to tell consistency from pix.

It certainly sounds like he is on the road toward recovery! Yeah!
😍👍💃