I don't see any shell rot or anything out of the ordinary. Shell rot normally occurs on the plastron in overly wet conditions, and it is very uncommon in sulcatas.can anybody tell me if those dark spots in the little yellow pentagrams in the middle of the shingles, is shell rot or is it normal/natural?
they’re being soaked right now as the pics were taken
omfg. 1st off (starstruck moment) ive been reading your comments for YEEEEEAAAAARS lol would never of thought you would’ve saw or responded to my 1st post! ))) you are like the tortoise whisperer/god. lol ?
you’re the one who taught me about pyramiding & the humid/wet truck behind preventing it! thank you thank you thank you. can’t even count the times I’ve read your advice & applied it! ❤
but anyways, in regards to their size,
(PLEASE brace yourself this is an INSANELY long response)
I agree 100%. see, the thing was, my very lazy, unfit of a parent father whom I don’t live with, lives with my two little brothers (at the time I wasn’t seeing them regularly) & at the time they were so young, like 8 & 3-4 & my dad bought them these tortoises shown here.
it was HORROR. they literally had them for like 5-6 months in a TINY, damp. 5 x 5 inch cardboard box with newspaper as lining. no lamp. no sun. NOTHING. it truly affected me deeply as I love animals & rescue them. there was NO water in there & I immediately asked my brother when the last time they’ve drank water. his response? “THEY DONT DRINK WATER” ???
needless to say, I was pissed af & horrified. immediately got a little container of water & held their heads to it & they LITERALLY put their heads under water completely for 5 minutes!!!! It was so sad.
I taught them about them about how they needed a heat lamp/sun & a bigger enclosure etc. that day I bought them a 10 gallon tank (they were tiny babies) & a lamp!
my dad had the AUDACITY to argue with me in front of my brothers telling me “they are not cold blooded but warm blooded” ! I was so dumbfounded at his ignorance but not surprised cus he’s a horrible dad. ?
so anyways, thought all was good, & as mentioned I don’t live with them & did all I could at the time since I left them with all they needed(or at least thought I did) so weeks pass& I come over & they tell me their mom (dads new wife & not my mom) (she’s also clueless that doesn’t care about animals) doesn’t let them use the lamp for the tortoises because it “wastes too much electricity” LIKE WTFFFFF ??
I was livid!!!!! I then politely told her in English (my dad & his wife are Vietnamese & are very foreign and cold hearted when it comes to animals) that they needed it to survive. so anyways, lamp in time ends up dying & I started seeing them more regularly because I felt like I had to be there to take care of these tortoises cus I felt so guilty.
I got them A WAY BIGGER like 60-80 gallon tank or more & made it so sick & dope for them etc I would take them out in the sun every time I visited (every weekend) etc
so, at that point is started to relax my guilt & felt content knowing (thinking) they had all they needed. sooo you’re not going to believe this. I come back weeks or whatever amount of time later and.... THEIR MOM TOOK THEM OUT OF THE HUGE TANK & PUT THEM BACK IN A TINY CARDBOARD BOX !! she said the tank “took up too much room” ???
i know, I was just as disturbed, confused, angry as you are reading this. for 1, WHY do you buy kids animals IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE care of them even when you’re NOT even paying for the care as someone else is?! ungrateful & UNFIT & EVIL!
so that was IT! that day my dad told me they were going on a trip to Vegas & asked if I could “watch” the tortoises. of course I said yes as it was now my opportunity to steal them & give them a real life. my brothers were insanely attached & in love with them which is why I didn’t really remove them prior , plus I lived in an apartment at the time and had 4 cats & a dog & a bird.
but I kept them, they lived on my patio, got more sun the first week they’ve ever had in their entire lives! Itook good care of them & always referenced your advise, Tom ❤ Thank you.
when cold I brought them Inside, etc. during their time at my apt they grew TONS!!!!
now, I live in a house & it’s been like 6 months or so since living in the apartments, they have their OWN outside environment I created & I swear to god LITERALLY quadrupled in size!!! ??
& one was always WAY tinier than the other & she is actually BIGGER than the other now ! CRAZY
they actually truly get along REALLY well and follow each other and choose to sleep in the same burrow. never fight & truly like each other? is that normal? I attached a pic of enclosure tell me what you think?
so yeah, THATS the long *** story as to why they’re that size, I’m not confident about their age but it’s definitely around those years I’ve mentioned above. I’ve done all I could for them at the time so it was so emotional for me seeing them finally on dirt , Being able to dig and burrow, etc! ??
they’re now inside with a heat pad as they nights are pretty cold.
ones name is Timmy & the other banana. (little brothers named them)
but thank you for reaching out to me & if you’ve made it this far in this essay, congratulations. hahaha ?
isn’t it sad that some parents like that exist?
(also posted pic of them with sandal to show size comparison)
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Come on now...if you've been reading Tom opinion for YEEEEEAAAAARS you should know by now that bullying is not necessarily obvious to keepers. They do NOT sleep together because they like each other, one is a bully. No doubt. You need to separate them now. They are pyramiding, they need soaking on a daily basis, they need supplemental food added as I don't see a meal out there, they need a SAFE secure enclosed place for them to sleep. I congratulate you for trying to save these tortoises. Oh and you're in Riverside with 2 small tortoises, I would make sure my tortoises were locked in at night and safe from the predators, not necessarily 4 legged ones
Come on now...if you've been reading Tom opinion for YEEEEEAAAAARS you should know by now that bullying is not necessarily obvious to keepers. They do NOT sleep together because they like each other, one is a bully. No doubt. You need to separate them now. They are pyramiding, they need soaking on a daily basis, they need supplemental food added as I don't see a meal out there, they need a SAFE secure enclosed place for them to sleep. I congratulate you for trying to save these tortoises. Oh and you're in Riverside with 2 small tortoises, I would make sure my tortoises were locked in at night and safe from the predators, not necessarily 4 legged ones
Moderator note: Your bad language was deleted. Please remember this is a family oriented forum, and not at all like Facebook. We don't allow bad language here
They dont follow one another and sleep in the same burrow because they get along. They do this because they are competing for territory and trying to harrass one another until one leaves, the fact that neither can leave means nothing to them, the bullying will continue. Sulcatas can kill each other, keeping them together is not safe
Well I thank you for the compliments and I'm glad my info helped you and your tortoises. There are lots of great people here on the forum and I see us as one big team of tortoise lovers. It makes me a little uneasy to be singled out as someone special because everyone here is helpful and enthusiastic about tortoises. There are people here that are more knowledgeable and experienced than me, and I look up to them.omfg. 1st off (starstruck moment) ive been reading your comments for YEEEEEAAAAARS lol would never of thought you would’ve saw or responded to my 1st post! ))) you are like the tortoise whisperer/god. lol ?
you’re the one who taught me about pyramiding & the humid/wet truck behind preventing it! thank you thank you thank you. can’t even count the times I’ve read your advice & applied it! ❤
but anyways, in regards to their size,
(PLEASE brace yourself this is an INSANELY long response)
I agree 100%. see, the thing was, my very lazy, unfit of a parent father whom I don’t live with, lives with my two little brothers (at the time I wasn’t seeing them regularly) & at the time they were so young, like 8 & 3-4 & my dad bought them these tortoises shown here.
it was HORROR. they literally had them for like 5-6 months in a TINY, damp. 5 x 5 inch cardboard box with newspaper as lining. no lamp. no sun. NOTHING. it truly affected me deeply as I love animals & rescue them. there was NO water in there & I immediately asked my brother when the last time they’ve drank water. his response? “THEY DONT DRINK WATER” ???
needless to say, I was pissed af & horrified. immediately got a little container of water & held their heads to it & they LITERALLY put their heads under water completely for 5 minutes!!!! It was so sad.
I taught them about them about how they needed a heat lamp/sun & a bigger enclosure etc. that day I bought them a 10 gallon tank (they were tiny babies) & a lamp!
my dad had the AUDACITY to argue with me in front of my brothers telling me “they are not cold blooded but warm blooded” ! I was so dumbfounded at his ignorance but not surprised cus he’s a horrible dad. ?
so anyways, thought all was good, & as mentioned I don’t live with them & did all I could at the time since I left them with all they needed(or at least thought I did) so weeks pass& I come over & they tell me their mom (dads new wife & not my mom) (she’s also clueless that doesn’t care about animals) doesn’t let them use the lamp for the tortoises because it “wastes too much electricity” LIKE WTFFFFF ??
I was livid!!!!! I then politely told her in English (my dad & his wife are Vietnamese & are very foreign and cold hearted when it comes to animals) that they needed it to survive. so anyways, lamp in time ends up dying & I started seeing them more regularly because I felt like I had to be there to take care of these tortoises cus I felt so guilty.
I got them A WAY BIGGER like 60-80 gallon tank or more & made it so sick & dope for them etc I would take them out in the sun every time I visited (every weekend) etc
so, at that point is started to relax my guilt & felt content knowing (thinking) they had all they needed. sooo you’re not going to believe this. I come back weeks or whatever amount of time later and.... THEIR MOM TOOK THEM OUT OF THE HUGE TANK & PUT THEM BACK IN A TINY CARDBOARD BOX !! she said the tank “took up too much room” ???
i know, I was just as disturbed, confused, angry as you are reading this. for 1, WHY do you buy kids animals IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE care of them even when you’re NOT even paying for the care as someone else is?! ungrateful & UNFIT & EVIL!
so that was IT! that day my dad told me they were going on a trip to Vegas & asked if I could “watch” the tortoises. of course I said yes as it was now my opportunity to steal them & give them a real life. my brothers were insanely attached & in love with them which is why I didn’t really remove them prior , plus I lived in an apartment at the time and had 4 cats & a dog & a bird.
but I kept them, they lived on my patio, got more sun the first week they’ve ever had in their entire lives! Itook good care of them & always referenced your advise, Tom ❤ Thank you.
when cold I brought them Inside, etc. during their time at my apt they grew TONS!!!!
now, I live in a house & it’s been like 6 months or so since living in the apartments, they have their OWN outside environment I created & I swear to god LITERALLY quadrupled in size!!! ??
& one was always WAY tinier than the other & she is actually BIGGER than the other now ! CRAZY
they actually truly get along REALLY well and follow each other and choose to sleep in the same burrow. never fight & truly like each other? is that normal? I attached a pic of enclosure tell me what you think?
so yeah, THATS the long *** story as to why they’re that size, I’m not confident about their age but it’s definitely around those years I’ve mentioned above. I’ve done all I could for them at the time so it was so emotional for me seeing them finally on dirt , Being able to dig and burrow, etc! ??
they’re now inside with a heat pad as they nights are pretty cold.
ones name is Timmy & the other banana. (little brothers named them)
but thank you for reaching out to me & if you’ve made it this far in this essay, congratulations. hahaha ?
isn’t it sad that some parents like that exist?
(also posted pic of them with sandal to show size comparison)
View attachment 312551View attachment 312552View attachment 312553View attachment 312554View attachment 312555View attachment 312556
The aggression and competitive behavior IS apparent. Like most people you just don't recognize it yet. Following is a form of "mad dogging". Cuddling and sleeping in the same area is a form of trying to crowd the other out of the territory. Does one or both sit on the food? That's another one.they’re still fairly small & young & wouldn’t the aggression or competitive behavior be apparent by now? I mean, I work from home, very observant & spend hours observing them.
Thank you Tom. I think this should be a sticky in the Sulcata section. I know I'm gonna copy it. You've simplified information on bullying. Moderator can you stick this?The aggression and competitive behavior IS apparent. Like most people you just don't recognize it yet. Following is a form of "mad dogging". Cuddling and sleeping in the same area is a form of trying to crowd the other out of the territory. Does one or both sit on the food? That's another one.
Outward, obvious hostility like biting, ramming, or flipping seldom happens with juveniles. The aggression is much more subtle. These are solitary animals. Other torts are not seen as friends. They are seen as intruders or competitors for limited resources. Other torts are not wanted, and having them in pairs causes low grade stress that can hamper their immune systems, lessen their appetites, and stunt growth too.
Groups of babies can usually work. It is pairs that are the problem. Its too personal. Groups dynamics are different than pair dynamics.
The outward signs are that you look at them one day and one is on his back, dead! I raised 4 hatchlings together, they were doing great for several years and then, one day found one dead on his back. I immediately rehomed two and kept just one, who has lived alone very well for going on 30 years now.what are the outward signs of this though? you can’t just say this a factual reality for all of them if no signs are present.
listen, I’m more than open to creating a whole new space for the other, but I just can’t stand to see them depressed from them not having each other to hold hands or tell secrets like they used to... (KIDDING)
but I will say, I AM open to that but there has to be some sort of outward sign & behavior that substantiates that from THESE TWO PARTICULAR tortoises, not others.
they’re still fairly small & young & wouldn’t the aggression or competitive behavior be apparent by now? I mean, I work from home, very observant & spend hours observing them.
cus I know there are people who disagree with the separation and agree with it. what type of behavior substantiates one another ?